The Serious Side

Well, folks, about to go early vote and help put this nightmare to bed. Tried earlier, but the line was too long and I had an appointment. Hope the early turnout here is a good sign.

Really, all Trump had to do last night was show up, not call Hillary a bitch, and not take a dump on the floor. The bar was that low for him. He managed the first and third, and barely avoided the second. If he knew how to STFU, he could have walked away with what passes for dignity in Republican circles these days.

But no, he couldn't bear an unexpressed 'nasty' thought, and then crowned the meltdown with a refusal to acknowledge and abide by the promise of a peaceful transfer of power.

Adios, moron. Don't let the door hit you on your pathetic ass on the way out.

PAN - Thanks for the Hugh Laurie clip. He's always fun to watch. He's right, too. Here in the US we're much more likely to die of diabetes or some other disease than from a terror attack - and if a terror attack does get us, it probably will be home grown - maybe one off Trump's army of misfits who want to save America from the Constitution that has kept us safe from people like Trump for over 200 years.

ladybugcngc wrote:Was that under the Bush Administration?  Was that before or after 9/11?  Osama Bin Ladan was an ally turned foe based in Afghanistan.  Thank you for proving my point.

After.  90,000 refugees. I don't see how that proves your point.

Well, Colbert last night said it best. I paraphrase

'Ah, so apparently democracy's going to be a cliffhanger!'

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:Was that under the Bush Administration?  Was that before or after 9/11?  Osama Bin Ladan was an ally turned foe based in Afghanistan.  Thank you for proving my point.

After.  90,000 refugees. I don't see how that proves your point.

Afghanistan is in the region I've stated has proven to be hostile toward our country.  Osama bin Ladan (once an ally who turned foe) was based in Afghanistan when the 9/11 murders took place.  That is consistent with my point, people who we have entreated (from that region) as once ally turned foe.   

Can you please send me the source for your Afghanistan refugee numbers and the time frame the 90,000 were admitted into our country.

ladybugcngc wrote:

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:Was that under the Bush Administration?  Was that before or after 9/11?  Osama Bin Ladan was an ally turned foe based in Afghanistan.  Thank you for proving my point.

After.  90,000 refugees. I don't see how that proves your point.

Afghanistan is in the region I've stated has proven to be hostile toward our country.  Osama bin Ladan (once an ally who turned foe) was based in Afghanistan when the 9/11 murders took place.  That is consistent with my point, people who we have entreated (from that region) as once ally turned foe.   

Can you please send me the source for your Afghanistan refugee numbers and the time frame the 90,000 were admitted into our country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_refugees#cite_note-Nordland_p.-5

Fava - Wikipedia.  Really?  Not a source I trust.    Without a documented verifiable United States government source, there is no proof 90,000 Afghanistan refugees exist in the United States.  

Do you have a documented verifiable United States government source?

Ladybug,
the numbers in the wikipedia article fava posted were - if you look at the references - were from 'UNHCR report 2013'. I don't know if this source is reliable enough for you although it's not a US report. By the way: Germany has hosted 126,344 refugees from Afghanistan at the same time, and the Netherlands (hi Ramona) 44,000.

Bin Laden actually was born and raised in Saudi Arabia, not in Afghanistan (if that's what you meant). We all know that he's from the Middle East.

Haha, I'm watching a tv program where a dutch reporter is asking american citizens what they think about the upcoming election. Now he talks to some men of the Trump camp in Ohio. They are soooo dumb! Unbelievable.

ladybugcngc wrote:Fava - Wikipedia.  Really?  Not a source I trust.    Without a documented verifiable United States government source, there is no proof 90,000 Afghanistan refugees exist in the United States.  

Do you have a documented verifiable United States government source?

I don't necessarily take wikipedia at face value either without looking into their sources and the author, but the sources in that Wikipedia article are footnoted in the article.  US Census and New York Times for the US specifically and a number of UN and other sources for Afghan refugees generally.  But even if the number is only 10-20 % of that.. I think your argument does not hold water.  

But I am sure you are entrenched in your position, just as I am in mine.  So hopefully, Hillary will win and the number of Syrian refugees will be raised from 10,000 to 65,000 and some of these families will have some hope of coming here and a chance to rebuild the lives shattered by ISIS and Assad.

Ramona_ wrote:Haha, I'm watching a tv program where a dutch reporter is asking american citizens what they think about the upcoming election. Now he talks to some men of the Trump camp in Ohio. They are soooo dumb! Unbelievable.

What was it about the Trump supporters that made you call them "dumb"? I know Trump's followers tend to be angry and scared, but most of them aren't stupid. They just can't cope with the world the way it is and want to go back to what they think were simpler times.

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:Fava - Wikipedia.  Really?  Not a source I trust.    Without a documented verifiable United States government source, there is no proof 90,000 Afghanistan refugees exist in the United States.  

Do you have a documented verifiable United States government source?

I don't necessarily take wikipedia at face value either without looking into their sources and the author, but the sources in that Wikipedia article are footnoted in the article.  US Census and New York Times for the US specifically and a number of UN and other sources for Afghan refugees generally.  But even if the number is only 10-20 % of that.. I think your argument does not hold water.  

But I am sure you are entrenched in your position, just as I am in mine.  So hopefully, Hillary will win and the number of Syrian refugees will be raised from 10,000 to 65,000 and some of these families will have some hope of coming here and a chance to rebuild the lives shattered by ISIS and Assad.

I don't trust wikipedia, I will take the time to review the actual U.S. sources wikipedia referenced.

I'm not a Hilary supporter, nor was I a President Obama supporter.  I will write in my vote like I have for the last 2 presidential elections.  Did my candidate win, NO.  Do I live with a clear conscious knowing I did not vote for a President responsible for bringing in 10,000 Syrian refugees, YES.

It is unfortunate Syrian people are under the hand of a government that is reported to impose violence on its people. It is unfortunate we sit under a government that would bring in 10,000 refugees from a country or region with an established murderous network that has committed MASS MURDER in our country. It is unfortunate we have a Presidential candidate that seeks to add 55,000 Syrian refugees. 

What lives in my heart are the lives shattered by the San Bernardino mass murder and other mass murders in the U.S. where ISIS/IS (a Syrian based murderous network) has claimed responsibility.  I'm going to write in a candidate I believe, all be it sympathetic to the Syrian people will act in the best interest of the citizens of this country.

When people go to vote I hope they are mindful of the problems we face nationally and internationally. As it stands now "we the people" of this country sit in the cross-hairs of international conflict.

I stand firm on my position.  I extend to you my hand to agree to disagree.

Ramona_ wrote:Haha, I'm watching a tv program where a dutch reporter is asking american citizens what they think about the upcoming election. Now he talks to some men of the Trump camp in Ohio. They are soooo dumb! Unbelievable.

Interesting...

19 days remaining, write-in miracle.

Ladybugcngc, why do you keep changing the title of the thread to your name?

I don't know how I'm doing that.  Can I change it?  I know when I hit quote it says post title I thought I was suppose to put my name.

LizzyNY wrote:

Ramona_ wrote:Haha, I'm watching a tv program where a dutch reporter is asking american citizens what they think about the upcoming election. Now he talks to some men of the Trump camp in Ohio. They are soooo dumb! Unbelievable.

What was it about the Trump supporters that made you call them "dumb"? I know Trump's followers tend to be angry and scared, but most of them aren't stupid. They just can't cope with the world the way it is and want to go back to what they think were simpler times.

It were the things they said. He talked to other people also who will vote for Trump and they were normal. But these men said things like: 'If I see Hillary, I will kill her, because I hate her.' and 'There shouldn't be a woman in charge. A man will do it better.' 

The good thing was that the program showed a side of America which the media doesn't show. We always see New York of California. But this was a little town in Ohio, were they have no jobs and a huge drugs problem. So, I understand they want something to change. But the way they talked...

He also talked to Milo Yiannopoulos. I never heard of him before but it was an interesting interview.

Ramona,
I'm not always sure about those interviews.
I once saw an interview on German TV, where they talked how uninformed and uninterested kids are now. They showed how they asked kids generally questions everybody normally knows the answer to, questions like: 'Who's the pope now?' 'What's our chancellor's name?' 'Which German car company has big problems due to a scandal?' 'What's the capitol of Germany?' etc. There really were dump answers. Later I read an article about this interview, and the kids said that nearly all of them answered the questions correctly but joked around a bit, and they showed these answers, not the correct ones. Because that underlined tgeir these that kids nowadays are dumber.

To come back to you, Ramona:
I've seen these sorts of interviews as well, mostly about our new right-wing politicians (we've got similar ones to your Geert Wilders), and I'm not convinced that they are representative for our society or the people of the area. There are always people who are just frustrated and angry, maybe dump, and you can't deny that. 
After the Brexit had happened, I saw interviews who said thar they voted 'Leave' simply because they wanted to say to Cameron 'F... up' or are frustrated and hope for the golden days to return. I don't know which golden days they are talking about, maybe the British Empire. I've got friends in Britain and went there countless times, bit certainly don't know every single area or town if the UK. But my general impression is, that they do quite well. Of course that's different in every region and I mostly know the south which is wealthier than the north. There are industries which broke down, partly because of the EU politics or simply because there's a competition and other countries are cheaper. But that's the same in Germany about the big industrial region Ruhrgebiet, but that's also due to technological development.

The general idea of the EU is to bring peace and to be in solidarity with other countries, and tgat has gone lost a bit...

I think it's dangerous that these frustrated people are used by a certain type of politicians we have in all our countries. They don't have a program, don't have solutions to solve the problems, don't have a clue, but people vote for them because they call themselves 'not part of the establishment' or simply 'Yeah, f... them!'

carolhathaway wrote:Ramona,
I'm not always sure about those interviews.
I once saw an interview on German TV, where they talked how uninformed and uninterested kids are now. They showed how they asked kids generally questions everybody normally knows the answer to, questions like: 'Who's the pope now?' 'What's our chancellor's name?' 'Which German car company has big problems due to a scandal?' 'What's the capitol of Germany?' etc. There really were dump answers. Later I read an article about this interview, and the kids said that nearly all of them answered the questions correctly but joked around a bit, and they showed these answers, not the correct ones. Because that underlined tgeir these that kids nowadays are dumber.

Unfortunately, I believe those interviews about Trump/US election are 100 % true and that a percentage of Americans do believe that.

18 days to a write in miracle.

Fava,
I'm also  sure that those interviews are true. I just think they're not representative. Because it's much more interesting to watch interviews with people who have extreme opinions, rather than 100 people saying :"Well, I'd prefere Hillary / Trump to become president, but if she / he won't make it, the world will still be rotating around the sun."

carolhathaway wrote:Fava,
I'm also  sure that those interviews are true. I just think they're not representative. Because it's much more interesting to watch interviews with people who have extreme opinions, rather than 100 people saying :"Well, I'd prefere Hillary / Trump to become president, but if she / he won't make it, the world will still be rotating around the sun."

Keeping write-in miracle hope alive.

I agree with fava's comments.  There are a large number of people who despise the Clintons and believe many of the conspiracies about them going back years. Most of them may not want to hang her but they don't trust Hillary at all.  And Trump has exploited every negative story, every rumor that has been reported about them.  And mostly white men support Trump and many of them don't think a woman should be President.  They reflect one group of Trump supporters.

The other group are the disenfranchised.  I don't discount that there are people in our country who are suffering financially.  Many live in smaller towns who have lost manufacturing jobs.  Those jobs have left and some of these towns are dying.  It's really sad.  But just like carolhathaway spoke of dying industries in Europe that result in many lost jobs, it is also what's happening here.  There is no easy fix.  Our working communities have been slow to catch up with the pace of new technology.   But those struggling don't want to hear that.  They want solutions and they want them now.  And Trump promises that he alone will fix everything.  Sadly people are uninformed enough to believe him.

Donnamarie wrote:I agree with fava's comments.  There are a large number of people who despise the Clintons and believe many of the conspiracies about them going back years.  They don't trust Hillary at all.  And Trump has exploited every negative story, every rumor that has been reported about them.  And mostly white men support Trump and many of them don't think a woman should be President.  They reflect one group of Trump supporters.

The other group are the disenfranchised.  I don't discount that there are people in our country who are suffering financially.  Many live in smaller towns who have lost manufacturing jobs.  Those jobs have left and some of these towns are dying.  It's really sad.  But just like carolhathaway spoke of dying industries in Europe that result in many lost jobs, it is also what's happening here.  There is no easy fix.  Our working communities have been slow to catch up with the pace of new technology.   But those struggling don't want to hear that.  They want solutions and they want them now.  And Trump promises that he alone will fix everything.  Sadly people are uninformed enough to believe him.

Governor - Mike Huckabee my write in candidate has wonderful economic solutions.  He never got the press because U.S. Oil-Corporate business funded other campaigns.  He represents "we the people"  and is truly a supporter of the 99%.

Ladybug,
I don't know  if I'm totally off the track, but as far as I know Huckabee dropped his campaign in February. So which miracle do you hope for?

We can vote him in with a write-in vote.

Didn't know that that's possible, interesting.

Ladybug, I'm sure there will be many voters writing in someone other than Clinton or Trump on Election Day. And you're right. It would take an extraordinary miracle for any of those who are written in to surpass the votes Clinton and Trump will get. Everyone has to follow their conscience but the harsh reality is that it will either be Clinton or Trump.

The 99% have the voting power to put in office whom they choose it does not have to be Clinton or Trump. It starts with one vote at a time.  Do me a favor and check out Gov. Huckabee's economic solutions and other things that may be important to you and tell me what you think.

Carolhathaway - When we go to vote, the ballots we get list the major parties and their candidates - but you can request a write-in ballot and vote for whomever you choose. You can vote for anyone - living or dead - real or fictional or even a cartoon. If I didn't think it would help Trump, I would write in LBJ because he was a master politician and would have straightened out Congress in no time.

LizzyNY wrote:Carolhathaway - When we go to vote, the ballots we get list the major parties and their candidates - but you can request a write-in ballot and vote for whomever you choose. You can vote for anyone - living or dead - real or fictional or even a cartoon. If I didn't think it would help Trump, I would write in LBJ because he was a master politician and would have straightened out Congress in no time.

 
Check out Gov. Huckabee he is real, living, and qualified.

Sorry,ladybug. Can't do it. I disagree with almost everything he stands for.

Have to agree with Lizzy nope .

Lizzy,
thanks for enlighting me!
So am I right when I think that every vote for anybody else than Hillary helps Trump? Because that's what I would guess when I think about the consequences...

By the way: I agree with your opinion on Johnson.

Ladybug,
if I were allowed to vote in the States, Huckabee really wasn't my first choice...

I understand.

Carolhathaway - You're welcome. And, yes, a vote for anyone else probably takes a vote away from Hillary. She and Trump are close enough in the polls that he still has a chance. IMO the deciding factor will be all the undecided voters who don't like either one of them - like ladybug. If they write in a candidate that's a vote Hillary doesn't get, so it doesn't increase her lead over Trump.
 
I've always felt that write-ins and third party candidates who have no chance of winning don't help anything. In a sense you're wasting your vote if you vote for someone you know can't win.

We also have Gary Johnson, the Libertarian, and Jill Stein, the Green candidate on the ballot. Johnson has lost some of his support since his infamous assertion that he didn't know what Aleppo was. I think his support has mostly gone to Clinton. Stein is negligible.

Agree that third party candidates and write-ins never have had a chance of winning an U.S. election. I think that's the reason Bernie Sanders decided to run as a Democrat instead of an Independent.

BTW, there will be a number of Republicans who can't vote for Trump but can't stand Clinton and they will not check off the Presidential candidate box but will vote only for those candidates running for congressional and Senate seats.

I am very well aware of Mike Huckabee and his stand on issues. I could not vote for him.

A hero came along this week....who put Hillary to one side and Donald to the other, sat in the middle and smiled....and got them to break bread together....The Hero got them to be civil to each other and shake hands....

My Hero sweated it out as they vented a little bile....My Hero was non judgmental (as far as I could tell).....My Hero smiled with encouragement into each of their faces....My Hero compassionately touched and cajoled each equally as they were tested by the event.....

My Hero Cardinal Timothy Dolan....Is it possible to be Pope and POTUS at the same time?.....If anyone can, Cardinal Tim can.....

17 days to a miracle write-in candidate.

Anyone still considering voting for Trump should read the 10/22/16 NY Daily News editorial "Bury Trump In A Landslide". It lays out the facts about Trump and the reasons, often in his own words, why not to vote for him.

http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2016/10/daily-news-editorial-bury-trump-in-landslide/

17 days left for a miracle write-in candidate.

PAN - Thanks for posting the link. It didn't occur to me - just that the article was way too long to post.

I hope this is not too little too late. All his crap should have been put out there when this whole thing started.

Donald dumb walked out on an interview after questions about being labeled a racist and sexist.
Yes because the President can just walk out of an interview like a spoiled child. And by the way
he will sue all the women who have lied on him once the election is over.

He just might be to busy to sue anyone.

Bravo article!

Another great site to find out why Trump mustn't win: Keith Olbermann's reports for GQ on YouTube. Brilliant!

party animal - not! wrote:http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2016/10/daily-news-editorial-bury-trump-in-landslide/

Lizzy and PAN,
thanks for this brilliant article. If anybody should still vote for Trump after reading that, you can't help him anyway, I suggest. But I'm sure there will be enough people calling this 'Trump bashing' or don't read it anyway because they simply ignore facts...

Carol , there are people who will defend him no matter what sadly.