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George and religion

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George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:10

[This conversation was taken from another thread. Yes, it's about religion and so could get heated but I do ask you all to please play nicely. The title of the thread should give you a clue to its subject matter and if you're easily offended, please skip it. Thanks! Katiedot]

May be off track but I know in order to be a godparent the Catholic Church needs to know what church you belong to. Now, I read a while back that George is not religious at all. Read he's an "aethist" and doesn't believe in the Catholic Church. Don't know if it's true.

But then again, money changes everything. He may have offered the Catholic Church money to allow him to be a godparent. My ex offered the Catholic Church money to allow him to get an "anullment" from our 17 years of marriage. They complied, leaving our two kids to feel like bastards.

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:20

What you say is correct re CC. However, other Christian religions have "godparents", and not all Italians are Catholic.

By the way, I don't think George is and athiest, I believe he is an agnostic. Doesn't believe in religion as such. I'm sure he believes in God.

Sorry about your "anullment". Don't know how it works in NJ, works differently in different dioceses throughout US. NYC area has 3 dioceses, NY Arcdiocese, Brooklyn and Rockville Center. Each treat annulment process differently. It can suck, and it can be good. Too bad your kids were hurt in that matter.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:25

Thanks patty for your explanation. Then that would make me an "agnostic" too. I don't believe in religious churches either. God is everywhere.

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Re: George and religion

Post by it's me on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:30

yes
Godson too
I think
but about Confirmation

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:31

You got it! He is. Thank goodness.

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Re: George and religion

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:33

I'm so sorry to hear that, CindiGirl! It sounds to me like he's the "Bastard" and not your children. Forgive my French, please!

As a man thinks in his heart, so is he!

Mind is the Master power that moulds and makes,
And Man is Mind, and evermore he takes
The tool of Thought, and, shaping what he wills,
Brings forth a thousand joys, a thousand ills: —
He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass:
Environment is but his looking-glass.
~James Allen

"He never wrote theories, or for the sake of writing; but he wrote when he had a message, and it became a message only when he had lived it out in his own life, and knew that it was good. Thus he wrote facts, which he had proven by practice." ~Lily Allen, wife

And about George being an atheist, don’t believe it, it’s not true!

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 15:47

Sorry Cindy I got atheist and agnostic mixed up. With all the good he does he must have a firm belief in God.

Getting an anullment was one of the "kinder" things he did to me and my kids. He took all the money we earned but I was so glad to be rid of him it was worth it.

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George and religion

Post by fluffy on Wed Aug 17 2011, 16:54

Cindi, all good catholics should never divorce, and even when they do, in the eyes of the church, they are not. Same with contraception, they don't, all kids are God given. With George though, although, and I agree agostic, not wihtout faith, but it must be hard for him to declare any path, for rousing some speculation or retort from some corner. So long as you do to others as have done to you, we all know right from wrong.

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Re: George and religion

Post by Katiedot on Wed Aug 17 2011, 17:02

AFAIK George is godparent to a number of children. I think it's fairly common practice to get someone rich or influential to be the godparent to your child, irrespective of the godparent's religious beliefs.

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Re: George and religion

Post by MM on Wed Aug 17 2011, 17:06

fluffy wrote:Cindi, all good catholics should never divorce, and even when they do, in the eyes of the church, they are not. Same with contraception, they don't, all kids are God given. With George though, although, and I agree agostic, not wihtout faith, but it must be hard for him to declare any path, for rousing some speculation or retort from some corner. So long as you do to others as have done to you, we all know right from wrong.

George went to Catholic elementary school (St. Susanna in Mason, Ohio), and was an altar boy during that time. His parents are devout Catholics.

The Catholic church does permit the "Rhythm Method" for family planning, not artificial birth control. With divorce, the Bible permits it cases of immoral behavior (Gospel of Matthew), and annulment is certain situations where it is determined there was no valid marriage (spouse does not want children, homosexuality in a partner).

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Re: George and religion

Post by lucy on Wed Aug 17 2011, 17:13

Have to agree with Katie, IMO being a godparent now a days isn't taken seriously as it was back in the day. When I became a godmother it was because of a shared religious belief and a close friendship with the parents. Now many years latter I know longer practice that religion, but the child has grown to an adult and can choose his own religious beliefs. If someone would ask me today to be the godparent of a child I would say no, would not want the responsibilty of being someones religious guide.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 17:19

MM quote:
" and annulment is certain situations where it is determined there was no valid marriage (spouse does not want children, homosexuality in a partner). "

So then that tells me that the Catholc Church did not consider our 17 year marriage "valid" . We did have children and there was no homosexuality involved. He paid the church to get what he wanted and it's as simple as that.

He wanted the annulment to then marry his new gf, a widow. She ended up leaving him after only 2 years so the $3,000 he paid the church did him no good.
.

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Wed Aug 17 2011, 17:35

Fluffy, while what you say is essentially true, there are shadings that do come into play. What makes a "good" Catholic? There are many good Catholics that are divorced. They function within the tenets of their religion, are receiving the Sacraments and participating at Mass.
They cannot remarry, as by doing so they are committing adultery. If they wish to have the opportunity to marry with the Church again, they must petition the Church for an Annulment. This can be a long and expensive proposition. Annulment Tribunals procedures vary from diocese to diocese. Just within the NYC area we have 3 different dioceses. Archdiocese of NY (most diffiicult and expensive Tribunal I've been told), Diocese of Brooklyn (much less expensive and much fairer to petitioner and petitioned)(personal experience) and Diocese of Rockville Center (haven't heard anything regarding their Tribunal). There are letters to be written by both Petitioner and Petitioned, by family and friends of long standing, all pretaining to the reasons for the Petition in the first place. There are many acceptable reasons for petitioning besides the 2 already cited.
I don't know the ratio of granted to denied, as this is not a very highly publicized aspect of the Church, but it is a fact that some get it and some don't, but I don't believe it's simply a "buy your way out" type of situation.

We know George grew up in a devout Catholic family situation, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he must be devout. I've known many altar boys who were definite hellraisers when not on that altar.

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Re: George and religion

Post by playfuldeb on Sun Aug 21 2011, 17:38

What religion is Talia? Her husband, John, is also roman catholic

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Re: George and religion

Post by socimar on Sun Aug 21 2011, 18:08

cindigirl wrote:[This conversation was taken from another thread. Yes, it's about religion and so could get heated but I do ask you all to please play nicely. The title of the thread should give you a clue to its subject matter and if you're easily offended, please skip it. Thanks! Katiedot]

May be off track but I know in order to be a godparent the Catholic Church needs to know what church you belong to. Now, I read a while back that George is not religious at all. Read he's an "aethist" and doesn't believe in the Catholic Church. Don't know if it's true.

But then again, money changes everything. He may have offered the Catholic Church money to allow him to be a godparent. My ex offered the Catholic Church money to allow him to get an "anullment" from our 17 years of marriage. They complied, leaving our two kids to feel like bastards.

Are you sure your ex offered the Catholic Church money to allow him to get an:"anulllment"? An Anullment itself is a process that is very costly as you have to collect/present documents/witnesses and go through three court sessions with a lawyer (or team of lawyers) and the prosecutor who follows the "canon law". All of the above is like a civil trial and can cost a huge amount of money especially if you have to pay out of state witnesses.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 18:35

I am very sure my ex paid the Catholic Church money because my daughter was so upset about this she told me. He paid thousands of dollars to the church. She had no axe to grind telling me this. She was just very hurt. The Church asked me first for a letter. I explained in the letter how he physicallly and emotionally abused me and the children. VERY soon after the anullment took place. Apparently abuse is an excuse or an "invalid marriage."

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 18:52

Yes, abuse is definitely one of the excuses for an invalid marriage. Also, as socimar stated, it can be a very expensive procedure. Her explanation of the process was very good. Depending on the Tribunal , it can cost hundreds to thousands. I guess some Tribunals keep their procedures to a minimum. My husband got an annulment for $500. in Brooklyn, NY. My daughter got one in NM for $600. In the Archdiocese of NY, it costs thousands of dollars and takes a great deal of time.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 19:02

So all you have to do is abuse your spouse, pay the church and get what you want. That's what it boils down to!

My two kids and I have very serious anger issues because of the way we were treated. My son especially.

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 19:19

Usually in cases of abuse, it's the abused party that files for the annulment. He parlayed being the bad guy into getting what he wanted. I'm sorry you have such anger issues, but the annulment doesn't make bastards of your kids. You were married according to your state's law, and were married when your kids were born, so there is no way that they could be considered illegimate and they shouldn't feel that they are. For them, it is the same as you being divorced. The "invalid marriage" only affects you and him. It makes remarriage within the Catholic Church possible, which wouldn't happen if only divorced.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 19:37

Thanks patty for being so understanding. He took all my money so as the abused party there was no way I could afford an "annulment." I was just so happy to be rid of him. My son is going to have to work out his anger issues himself. He's doing fine though, he put himself through NJIT college and now is an engineer.

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Re: George and religion

Post by ladydi on Sun Aug 21 2011, 19:54

playfuldeb wrote:What religion is Talia? Her husband, John, is also roman catholic

I believe George was married in a civil ceremony in Vegas. Talia would still have to get an annulment but it is a different type, doesn't take as long, nor cost as much.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 19:59

A little bit off topic, but funny - my girlfriend is married to an Irish American guy and they married in a civil ceremony in Las Vegas. He talked her into getting married in the Catholic Church and they did. The only I guess problem is that she was nine months pregnant when she walked down the church aisle. LOL

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Sun Aug 21 2011, 20:03

playfuldeb wrote:What religion is Talia? Her husband, John, is also roman catholic


what difference does Talia's religion make? She and George married in Vegas so as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, they were not married. Not that George need be concerned as he doesn't intend to marry again, either in or out of the Church.

If she and John Slattery got married within the Catholic Church, she would have gotten a different type of annulment which takes no time at all and is just available to those whose marriage was not sanctioned by any Church, Catholic or other religion.

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Re: George and religion

Post by blubelle on Mon Aug 22 2011, 00:16

I believe that Talia's father (Martin Balsin) was born Jewish. I don't know her mother's religion.

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Re: George and religion

Post by melbert on Mon Aug 22 2011, 01:17

Joyce was born Italian/Dutch, but don't know her religion.

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Re: George and religion

Post by playfuldeb on Mon Aug 22 2011, 01:22

Pattygirl - maybe I was just curious. (jeeez)

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Re: George and religion

Post by Henway on Mon Aug 22 2011, 01:51

Did Talia and John get married in a Church, other wise I do not see religion taking play unless a priest married them.

As for Godparent, I am one but I am not Catholic. I was never asked by the priest if I was. I feel it should not matter what religion one is, as long as your there for any type of question the child may have. So when they are adults and chose to live there life under what ever religion they want they understand there is no wrong religion, only what is right for them. IMO

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Re: George and religion

Post by sarah ali on Fri Sep 16 2011, 08:40

i read this about him , don't know how to understand it very well , please explain what he means scratch

From Larry King Live February 16, 2006:
King: Did you lose your faith, or do you still have it?
Clooney: I don't have a specific....Yeah...I don't....You know. It's an interesting thing. I'll tell you what's tricky about this. In talking about religion, if you're well known, anything you say, it sort of takes off about a bunch of other people and attacks their belief. So I always try to say that, you know, first and foremost, that whatever anybody believes as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else, it's fair enough, and works, and I think, is real, and matters. I don't happen to have those beliefs, as much, you know, I don't believe in those things.



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Re: George and religion

Post by it's me on Fri Sep 16 2011, 08:45

he can't say the truth

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Re: George and religion

Post by sarah ali on Fri Sep 16 2011, 08:51

??

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Re: George and religion

Post by Katiedot on Fri Sep 16 2011, 09:19

I think he's more or less saying that he doesn't believe in religion but he really, really, really doesn't want to be quoted on it!

Which is fair enough, I think. No matter what he says, he's going to get hammered by someone so better for him to not say what his religous beliefs (if any) are out loud.

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Re: George and religion

Post by it's me on Fri Sep 16 2011, 12:33

esatto!

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Re: George and religion

Post by lucy on Fri Sep 16 2011, 12:42

Katie, that's the same impression I've gotten over the years, he doesn't talk about it much, but when he does it's always the same vague way of answering.

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Re: George and religion

Post by fava on Fri Sep 16 2011, 13:18

I believe there is a misperception about the definition of agnostic. (and I have ho idea if George is one or not!) It is not someone who believes in God but not organized religion. It is, according to the dictionary:
"a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism."

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Re: George and religion

Post by MM on Fri Sep 16 2011, 13:19

Henway wrote:Did Talia and John get married in a Church, other wise I do not see religion taking play unless a priest married them.

As for Godparent, I am one but I am not Catholic. I was never asked by the priest if I was. I feel it should not matter what religion one is, as long as your there for any type of question the child may have. So when they are adults and chose to live there life under what ever religion they want they understand there is no wrong religion, only what is right for them. IMO


George and Talia were married in Las Vegas in a civil ceremony in 1989. They basically eloped.

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Re: George and religion

Post by it's me on Fri Sep 16 2011, 13:29

eloped?!??!

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 16:27

it's me wrote:eloped?!??!

Eloped essentially means: Run away to get married. Not having a "big" wedding with all the frills. Could be getting married on the spur of the moment. Not wanting anyone to know until it is done. All those are possible definitions.

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 16:33

Whatever George's beliefs, if he expresses them it becomes a big to-do. If he says he doesn't believe in religion, he's damned in public. If he say he's Catholic (which he has, in the past), then he's damned by Catholics everywhere, because of his lifestyle choices (girlfriends and the obvious fact that he sleeps with them). So he's damned if he does believe, and damned if he doesn't. So he really just hems and haws, and hedges his bets. Would probably be better if he just said "I really don't want to discuss religion in any form".

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 16:39

I wouldn't know what to label myself. I truly believe in God but not the Catholic Church. I think God judges you on how you live your life, not how many times you go to church. God is everywhere, IMO

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Re: George and religion

Post by MM on Fri Sep 16 2011, 16:42

cindigirl wrote:I wouldn't know what to label myself. I truly believe in God but not the Catholic Church. I think God judges you on how you live your life, not how many times you go to church. God is everywhere, IMO

That's right, Cindi. God does judge us on how we live. There are too many denominations that really do not know how to interpret the Bible correctly.

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 16:54

MM, unfortunately it is true, that there is much misinterpretation of the Bible. It is also true that there too many denominations.
It would be wonderful if God gave "all" mankind the knowledge and wisdom to interpret His Word correctly and in the same context. Then it would only be necessary to have one denomination as all would have exactly the same beliefs. Maybe then we could even have a time of peace on earth.

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:01

Well said patty.

I'm sure there is a space saved in Heaven for our George in spite of his sexual proclivities.

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Re: George and religion

Post by sandwiches on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:12

cindigirl wrote:Well said patty.

I'm sure there is a space saved in Heaven for our George in spite of his sexual proclivities.

I would suspect it's because of them. Laughing

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:16

I'm sure there's a place for him. His good works far outshine his sexual appetite. I really don't think his place is saved because of his sexual proclivities, but definitely there is one. There is a place in "our heaven" for him because of them, and we'll all be waiting for him there.

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Re: George and religion

Post by it's me on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:19

"our heaven" sounds nice Smile

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:22

I'll race ya girls. Bet I'll beat you!! Smile

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Re: George and religion

Post by pattygirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:27

Remember, I'm older, probably be first in line.! Very Happy

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Re: George and religion

Post by cindigirl on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:33

Not the way I live. Eat, drink, smoke and be happy! LOL

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Re: George and religion

Post by sandwiches on Fri Sep 16 2011, 17:51

I'm pretty sure I'll be going in the other direction. Laughing

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Re: George and religion

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 16 2011, 19:14

This brings to mind the letters to the seven churches. We’ve all run short of the glory, only through Christ can we achieve the goal. Without Christ we are doomed. And those of you that do not believe, I love you but, I will not apologize. This is what I believe and what I stand by. In the letter to the churches each church is wrong according to the gospel. That’s why Jesus was against the “Sadducees” and “Pharisees”. It was “organized” religion. It was organized to meet a man’s needs and not the needs of the people/soul. “Be on your guard against the *“yeast” of the “Pharisees” and “Sadducees”… then they understood… against the teaching of the “Pharisees” and “Sadducees”. ” ~Matt. 16:11-12 – this verse can be added to all organized “religion”. Believers must band together and understand that all are short. But as a body must move in the direction that is for the greater good. In other words… do not listen and believe what someone else tells you, get the Bible out and read it for yourself to see if it stands. If it stands with scripture, then believe, if it doesn’t then discuss it until the truth comes out. Scripture is God breathed… ever changing and God will provide the answer in His word. IMO

*Yeast makes “dough” rise up… yeast strengthens “dough”… yeast helps develop “gluten network”…
Isn’t that funny how “gluten network” is used? Maybe we should change it to glutton… and “dough” to cash… and “yeast” to yoke… just saying.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. ~Matt. 11:30

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Re: George and religion

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