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Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

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Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Thu Aug 07 2014, 23:04

August 7, 2014

http://gawker.com/breaking-u-s-either-is-bombing-iraq-or-it-isnt-or-i-1617849789

Just moments ago, the New York Times reported that U.S. forces have begun bombing runs in the north of Iraq to give breathing space to threatened Yazidi refugees fleeing Islamic militants:



The US Pentagon Press Secretary is denying the report:



And CBS is reporting that northern airstrikes are possible soon to protect U.S. troops who have been working in the area.



Gawker will have more info as it becomes available.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by it's me on Thu Aug 07 2014, 23:30

:/

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Thu Aug 07 2014, 23:36

Now they are reporting that the US humanitarian air drops will start over Iraq.

Comments I've been reading are indicating that Northern Iraqi Kurds are asking for water.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/07/world/iraq-options/index.html



Official: U.S. humanitarian airdrop missions start in Iraq


By Jim Sciutto, Elise Labott and Tom Cohen, CNN

updated 6:22 PM EDT, Thu August 7, 2014

(CNN) -- [Breaking news update at 6:16 p.m. ET Thursday]

"An effort has begun" on humanitarian airdrops over northern Iraq, a senior U.S. official told CNN on Thursday. Fighter jets are involved in the effort for the purpose of protection, the source said.

[Original story, posted at 5:47 p.m. ET Thursday]

U.S. considers air strikes in Iraq

(CNN) -- An emerging humanitarian crisis in northern Iraq, with minority groups facing possible slaughter by Sunni Muslim extremists, has President Barack Obama considering airstrikes and airdrops to help get them aid.

"The latest news just might meet the threshold for action," a U.S. official told CNN amid reports of thousands of families from the Yazidi minority trapped without food, water or medical care in the summer heat after fleeing the rampaging fighters of the Islamic State, also known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria or ISIS.

The Pentagon called "completely false" overseas media reports that the United States had already conducted airstrikes.

A potential escalation of U.S. military involvement comes two years after Obama ended the Iraq war and brought home American forces.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters Thursday that any potential U.S. action in Iraq would be limited, with no chance of ground troops heading back.

He said the principle for taking a military step would be threats to core American interests or U.S. personnel in Iraq.

Refusing to offer details on what options were being considered, Earnest described the current situation in Iraq as "disturbing," with "innocent populations persecuted just because of their ethnic identity."

Later Thursday, a Pentagon official told CNN's Barbara Starr of concerns that ISIS could make a move against the several dozen U.S. military advisers in Irbil, the largest city in Iraq's Kurdish region.

People fleeing

The ISIS fighters, armed with armored vehicles and other military hardware taken from Iraqi forces in a lightning sweep through the north earlier this year, have overrun Iraq's largest Christian town and nearby villages.

When radical Islamist fighters stormed the northern Iraqi town of Sinjar over the weekend, the Yazidi minority who call it home fled into the surrounding mountains in fear of their lives.

Now, trapped without food, water or medical care in the summer heat, thousands are in desperate need of help. It's already too late to save dozens of children who've died of thirst.

Other groups targeted by ISIS, which seeks to establish a Sunni caliphate stretching from Syria to Baghdad, include Shiite Muslim, Turkmen and Shabak -- all religious minorities.

Fleeing people, some in cars and trucks and others on foot, got out with whatever possessions. The United Nations estimates 200,000 people heading toward Kurdistan in the past 48 hours.

Kurdish region

Outside Irbil, the internal refugees were sleeping in parking lots or shells of buildings under construction with little access to water or any other services, CNN's Ivan Watson reported.

Kurdish officials call for U.S. or NATO airstrikes to help them fight the ISIS forces.

They also issued statements intended to boost morale of the Kurdish people, saying the Kurdish Pershmerga fighters would be able to hold off any serious threat to Erbil and other cities.

The Obama administration is talking with officials in Baghdad and Erbil and is looking at options to provide humanitarian support, including but not limited to Iraqi government airdrops, according to a second U.S. official.

A senior State Department official said the United States also was weighing opening a humanitarian corridor to provide support to Kurdish and Iraqi forces.

Earnest, however, said while the United States would support Iraqi and Kurdish efforts, "we can't solve these problems for them. These problems can only be solved with Iraqi political solutions."

The United States has 245 military personnel in Iraq, 90 of whom are advisers. The carrier USS George H.W. Bush and other Navy ships also are in the region.

Sinjar unrest

Yazidis, among Iraq's smallest minorities, are of Kurdish descent, and their religion is considered a pre-Islamic sect that draws from Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism.

Most of the 500,000 or so members live in and around Sinjar in northwestern Nineveh province, bordering Iraq's Kurdish region.

The U.N. children's agency, UNICEF, said Tuesday that official reports indicated 40 children from the Yazidi minority had died "as a direct consequence of violence, displacement and dehydration" since the weekend.

"Families who fled the area are in immediate need of urgent assistance, including up to 25,000 children who are now stranded in mountains surrounding Sinjar and are in dire need of humanitarian aid including drinking water and sanitation services," it said.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Thu Aug 07 2014, 23:38

Now I'm wondering if the initial reports of bombings were to clear suspected ISIS controlled areas to allow for the humanitarian air drops.

I don't know if they have anti-aircraft rocket capabilities but perhaps it would be better to be safe than sorry.


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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by party animal - not! on Fri Aug 08 2014, 00:14

So CBS seem to think there are US personnel already on the ground........?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Silje on Fri Aug 08 2014, 00:32

Oh no, you shouldn't get involved there again. Can't the Iraqi military and the Kurds deal with the ISIS problem themselves. Or Putin back up Assad some more or Teheran back up their Shite brothers in Iraq...Someone has do deal with these nut-jobs  but The US should stay out of it. You haven't even gotten out of Afghanistan yet and the Talibans are getting stronger. Now you're being pulled in again in Iraq. Sigh.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Fri Aug 08 2014, 00:57

This whole part of the world is like a swamp full of quicksand. Anyone trying to help finds themselves up to their neck in neverending, soul-killing trouble. I can only pray for the deliverance of those poor refugees.

How can anyone with a conscience support these barbarian terrorists in their genocidal jihad?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:08

Some information:


The Yazidis are a religious minority in northern Iraq.
The Yazidis are an ethnically Kurdish group that follows an ancient pre-Islamic religion with links to Zoroastrianism. Some 500,000 Yazidis reside in northern Iraq, according to the U.S. State Department. Sunni extremist militants who call themselves the Islamic State have targeted the group and other religious minorities, displacing an estimated 200,000 civilians, mostly Yazidis, according to the United Nations.


[*]Thousands have fled into the mountains to escape the advancing militants.
Earlier this month, the Sunni extremists took over Sinjar, a Kurdish-controlled town and the Yazidis’ ancestral homeland.  The militants killed many Yazidis who remained in the towns, while an estimated 40,000 Yazidis fled into the surrounding mountains without food or water. Many refugee children are reported to have died, and there is a critical shortage of food and water for the Yazidis hiding in the mountains.


[*]The U.S. has begun airdrops to help the Yazidis and may launch airstrikes.
U.S. defense officials said the U.S. has begun dropping emergency relief supplies into Iraq, and is considering airstrikes, as the situation for Yazidis hiding in the mountains becomes increasingly dire.
[*]

____________________________________________
 Im not the least bit worried about Ebola and more worried about what this group is capable of, especially when the Iraq military have tried and failed many times to put a stop to this groups rampage through the country.

Link
http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2014/08/07/the-yazidis-at-a-glance/?mod=e2tw


Last edited by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:10; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : had to fix layout)

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by party animal - not! on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:14

Totally agree, Themi. And the world has been distracted over the the last weeks with Ukraine and Israel/Gaza and Ebola........

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:20

Warning - highly charged emotional speech by a Yazidi MP in Iraqi Parliament, I will remove if it causes distress - just send me a PM.


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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Silje on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:35

Terrible.Ethnic/religious cleansing and slavery. What is wrong with mankind?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:38

Silje - I guess the easy answer is too many people have lost their humanity and value of life -

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:38

Silje - I guess the easy answer is too many people have lost their humanity and value of life -

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Silje on Fri Aug 08 2014, 01:56

It's sad Theminis. I guess Iraq have seen too many wars in the past 30 years; against Iran and then the two Gulf Wars. Saddams oppression against the Kurds and The shiites especially and the American occupation. I guess the children that grow up in this become messed up.

Since ISIS is Sunni I wonder how many of Saddams people that are envolved. And of course the Oil nations around the Gulf are backing them financially.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 02:04

ISIS definitely have friends in high places, judging from the amount of money they have access too - it is very sad, too many people in that area have lived in oppressive conditions for too long -


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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Pita428 on Fri Aug 08 2014, 03:49

On Ronan Farrow Daily they discussed this with a former US military colonel. He in a very round about manner said the US would be involved though not with "boots on the ground" or via air strikes. He also the Iraqi Air Force lacked the ability to bomb ISIS, it would be more likely to see long range cruise missiles. They would have to bomb in order to drop supplies and minimize risk. I hope they are successful.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 03:51

I hope they are successful too - these people need someone to stand up for them. Such a tragedy all round lately

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Fri Aug 08 2014, 04:25

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/07/world/iraq-options/index.html?hpt=hp_t1



Obama authorizes 'targeted airstrikes' in Iraq to counter militants


By Jim Sciutto, Catherine E. Shoichet and Barbara Starr, CNN
updated 10:57 PM EDT, Thu August 7, 2014


Washington (CNN)
-- U.S. President Barack Obama said Thursday that he's authorized "targeted airstrikes" in Iraq to protect American personnel and help Iraqi forces.


"We do whatever is necessary to protect our people," Obama said. "We support our allies when they're in danger."


A key concern for U.S. officials: dozens of American consular staff and military advisers working with the Iraqi military in Irbil, the largest city in Iraq's Kurdish region.


Obama said Thursday he'd directed the military to take targeted strikes against Islamist militants "should they move towards the city."


Rapid developments on the ground, where a humanitarian crisis is emerging with minority groups facing possible slaughter by Sunni Muslim extremists, have set the stage for an increasingly dire situation.


Thousands of families from the Yazidi minority are reportedly trapped in the mountains without food, water or medical care after fleeing the rampaging fighters of the Islamic State, also known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria or ISIS.


Throngs of refugees, many of them Iraqi Christians, are on the run -- their largest city, Qaraqosh, now occupied by fighters who gave them an ultimatum, "Convert to Islam or die."


Obama also said he'd authorized targeted airstrikes "if necessary" to help Iraqi forces protect civilians trapped on the mountain.


"When we face a situation like we do on that mountain with innocent people facing the prospect of violence on a horrific scale, when we have a mandate to help, in this case a request from the Iraqi government, and when we have the unique capabilities to help avert a massacre, then I believe the United States of America cannot turn a blind eye," Obama said. "We can act, carefully and responsibly to prevent a potential act of genocide."


The potential escalation of U.S. military involvement comes two years after Obama ended the Iraq war and brought home American forces.


White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters Thursday that there is no chance of ground troops heading back.


Obama acknowledged that many Americans are concerned about military action in Iraq.


"As Commander in Chief, I will not allow the United States to be dragged into fighting another war in Iraq, so as we support Iraqis as they take the fight to these terrorists, American combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq because there is no American military solution to the larger crisis in Iraq," Obama said.


The President's announcement that he'd authorized airstrikes came after the United States airdropped meals and water in Iraq, sending humanitarian aid to trapped minority groups.


"The mission was conducted by a number of U.S. military aircraft under the direction of U.S. Central Command," a senior U.S. defense official said. "The aircraft that dropped the humanitarian supplies have now safely exited the immediate airspace over the drop area."


Iraqi forces fight back as Islamists advance
The Iraqi air force bombed a number of targets Thursday night, Qubad Talabani, deputy prime minister of the Kurdish Regional Government, told CNN. The strikes killed at least two ISIS emirs, he said.


Talabani also reported that U.S. officials said humanitarian airdrops would take place for the tens of thousands of Yazidis he estimates are stranded without food or water.
The United States has been sharing intelligence through reconnaissance but are not involved in any airstrikes, a senior Iraqi military official told CNN on Thursday.


The ISIS fighters, armed with armored vehicles and other military hardware taken from Iraqi forces in a lightning sweep through the north earlier this year, have overrun Iraq's largest Christian town and nearby villages.


When radical Islamist fighters stormed the northern Iraqi town of Sinjar over the weekend, the Yazidi minority who call it home fled into the surrounding mountains in fear of their lives.


Now, trapped without food, water or medical care in the summer heat, thousands are in desperate need of help. It's already too late to save dozens of children who've died of thirst.


Other groups targeted by ISIS, which seeks to establish a Sunni caliphate stretching from Syria to Baghdad, include Shiite Muslim, Turkmen and Shabak -- all religious minorities.


Fleeing people, some in cars and trucks and others on foot, got out with whatever possessions. The United Nations estimates 200,000 people heading toward Kurdistan in the past 48 hours.


In a statement released Thursday night, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called the situation a "wake-up call."


ISIS, he said, is "offering nothing to anyone except chaos, nihilism, and ruthless thuggery."


"With a gut-wrenching humanitarian crisis unfolding, and the rolls of the starving and sick growing daily, there's not a minute to waste," Kerry said. "The United States is acting and leading, and the world cannot sit by and watch innocents die."


After an emergency meeting on the situation Thursday, the United Nations Security Council issued a statement condemning the Islamists' attacks.


"The members of the Security Council reiterate that widespread or systematic attacks directed against any civilian populations because of their ethnic background, political grounds, religion or belief may constitute a crime against humanity, for which those responsible must be held accountable," the statement said


The council called on the international community to support Iraq "and to do all it can to help alleviate the suffering of the population affected by the current conflict."


Kurdish region
Outside Irbil, the internal refugees were sleeping in parking lots or shells of buildings under construction with little access to water or any other services, CNN's Ivan Watson reported.


Kurdish officials call for U.S. or NATO airstrikes to help them fight the ISIS forces.
They also issued statements intended to boost morale of the Kurdish people, saying the Kurdish Pershmerga fighters would be able to hold off any serious threat to Irbil and other cities.


A senior State Department official said the United States also was weighing opening a humanitarian corridor to provide support to Kurdish and Iraqi forces.


Earnest, however, said while the United States would support Iraqi and Kurdish efforts, "we can't solve these problems for them. These problems can only be solved with Iraqi political solutions."


The United States has 245 military personnel in Iraq, 90 of whom are advisers. The carrier USS George H.W. Bush and other Navy ships also are in the region.


Sinjar unrest
Yazidis, among Iraq's smallest minorities, are of Kurdish descent, and their religion is considered a pre-Islamic sect that draws from Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism.


Most of the 500,000 or so members live in and around Sinjar in northwestern Nineveh province, bordering Iraq's Kurdish region.


The U.N. children's agency, UNICEF, said Tuesday that official reports indicated 40 children from the Yazidi minority had died "as a direct consequence of violence, displacement and dehydration" since the weekend.


"Families who fled the area are in immediate need of urgent assistance, including up to 25,000 children who are now stranded in mountains surrounding Sinjar and are in dire need of humanitarian aid including drinking water and sanitation services," it said.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 04:54

THey need all the help they can get, so this is a good start I think.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Fri Aug 08 2014, 05:57

Yes, it wasn't until earlier today that I understood that these people were driven to the mountains with no food, no water and just the clothes on their backs.

I for one would be so disappointed in our country if we turned away from this.

As President Obama said in the video, a man there cried that no one was helping them.  I hope they realize that the rest of the world are not a bunch of cold-hearted bastards and that we will help.

Also, I'm very hopeful that since they are in the mountains that it will be difficult for ISIS to get to the humanitarian aide, especially if our airships protect the drops.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Alisonfan on Fri Aug 08 2014, 11:20

Isis are the biggest threat to Middle East, and the rest of the world.   
Some say that is why it looks as if no help from Arabs for Gaza.
The Arab world is worried about it's own back.
This could be bigger than anything we have seen before, I know President Obama said "no boots on the ground", but if he leaves it too long, (like the rest of the Middle East have done(nothing, but empty word, reports and draft reports), it may become a fire that is out of control.
Europe and the U.S are facing a challenge, and I pray for them to have courage.
We need good people and leaders of action and decisiveness , they are few in this world. Most people don't want to know, they have their own busy lives, they just don't care, until it is at their doorstep.
In London and Edinburgh many things are already being touched by these problems, I pray it won't cause a friction between communities.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Atalante on Fri Aug 08 2014, 13:32

About time they stepped in. We have some members from Sharia for Belgium who are now active in ISIS. Our politicians and police didn't think they were a threat, ..., yeah right.  Evil or Very Mad We sure have an incompetent bunch over here.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Fri Aug 08 2014, 17:27

US news is reporting that US airships have taken out some of ISIS's rocket capabilities.  

They bombed a convoy that had some heavy artillary equipment - destroying that equipment.  

So I think the US is trying to be very specific in what they are targeting - heavy artillary, tanks, anti-aircraft rocket launchers and the like is what I'm guessing will be the majority of targets.


Iraq Watch: U.S. airstrikes hit Islamic State artillery; top Iraqi cleric blames bickering politicians for crisis


By Lindsay Wise and Mitchell Prothero
McClatchy Washington Bureau


Published: Friday, Aug. 8, 2014 - 7:55 am

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. military has carried out airstrikes on artillery used by Islamic State militants near the Kurdish capital of Irbil, the Pentagon said on Friday.

Pentagon spokesman Rear Adm. John Kirby said in a statement Friday morning that two F/A-18 aircraft dropped 500-pound laser-guided bombs on a mobile artillery piece near Irbil. The artillery had been used against Kurdish forces defending Irbil, near U.S. personnel, he said.

Kirby said the targeted strikes took place at 6:45 a.m. Eastern time.

“The decision to strike was made by the U.S. Central Command commander under authorization granted him by the commander in chief,” he said. “As the president made clear, the United States military will continue to take direct action against ISIL when they threaten our personnel and facilities.”

The U.S. military also has conducted aid drops to Iraqis in need, Kirby said.

Today’s other news from Iraq:

- Iraq’s top cleric blamed politicians for the country’s escalating crisis and called on them stop arguing and choose a prime minister so that a united government can confront the danger posed by militants from the Islamic State.

Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani said in a Friday sermon in the holy city of Kerbala that selfish politicians who cling to their positions are making a “grave mistake,” according to the Alakhbar news website.

“All Iraqis should unify ranks and intensify efforts in the face of this big danger that threatens their present and future,” Sistani said.

“All political parties should know that conflicts and differences among each other_which in many times have no justification but self interest or sectarian or national interests_have caused the weakening of everybody and opened the door for the terrorists,” he said.

- International oil companies, who maintain a huge presence in Irbil, have put their employees on the highest alert as the prepare evacuation plans from the capital.

Exxon and Chevron both had restricted their employees’ movements over the past few days, with most confined to their homes under heavy security.

Now the companies are bringing planes into Irbil’s international airport to evacuate employees should conditions deteriorate. Industry sources said U.S. airstrikes in or around Irbil would be a likely trigger.

- On Friday morning the British Embassy had warned its citizens to leave Irbil and Dohuk, cities close to the major fighting, while the US Embassy had yet to make an official announcement.

- Kurdish security officials speaking on the condition of anonymity said that Thursday night saw the execution of a security plan in which Arab Sunnis_of which there are tens of thousands as refugees in the Kurdisn areas_that have been under observation were being arrested in a series of raids throughput the area. Plainclothes Kurdish security forces could be seen in unmarked cars throughout may areas of the capital, as, according to the officials, steps were taken to prevent ‘sleeper cell’ attacks inside the city.

“We have real concerns about Daash posing as refugees,” said one security official, using the derogatory Arabic acronym for the Islamic State. “We have been watching closely for them and caught many trying to enter our territory.”

On Thursday at the main checkpoint between IS held Mosul and Irbil, at least three refugees were seen being bundled into the trunks of cars by peshemrga forces, apparently, in one case, because of his Mosul accents and a Koran in his car.

Mitchell Prothero contributed to this article from Irbil, Iraq.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/08/6614863/iraq-watch-us-airstrikes-hit-islamic.html#storylink=cpy

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Fri Aug 08 2014, 19:17

The Yazidis provided invaluable support to the US during both wars there. I think maybe this has been de-emphasized in the coverage in order to minimize inflaming more violence against them. But it would have been inhumane and unforgivable to not help them, even without the threat of genocide.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Sat Aug 09 2014, 01:35

I understand President Obamas comments that the US cannot intervene in every country where there is genocide/atrocities etc but Im very glad to hear that the US has at this point in time made an effort to help these people, I only hope that more countries can or will step up each and every time.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Nicky80 on Sat Aug 09 2014, 09:37

theminis wrote:I understand President Obamas comments that the US cannot intervene in every country where there is genocide/atrocities etc but Im very glad to hear that the US has at this point in time made an effort to help these people, I only hope that more countries can or will step up each and every time.

I think in this case Obama had no other choice. The Americans invaded this country. W. Bush said at the end "mission accomplished" and Obama said at the end when he got the American soldiers out the country is not the best but it is stable...Now you can see both presidents were wrong. And Now the Iraq ask the US officially to help them. So Obama knew he can't get out of that one. 

If you think about it....The country under Hussin was already bad but now it is worst. I think nobody ever though about it....

Don't mean it negative against the USA. Just my two cents  Laughing

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Aug 09 2014, 12:52

Not looking for a fight, but why does everyone always expect the US to step in and save everyone? Then, when we do, we're criticised for being the "cops of the world" and imperialists. I'm not saying we shouldn't help where we can - I guess I'm saying, "Where the hell is the rest of the world"?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by party animal - not! on Sat Aug 09 2014, 13:30

Crikey, Lizzy, good question. But HUGE debate....


As I sat on my sofa watching all these horrors unfold the other night, I said 'Barack, I know you don't want to, but I think you've got to do something now. You are the leaders of the western world, with more fire power and resources than any other country and with a sense of what is right to avoid genocide. (alternatives? Russia, China). It must be clear by now that the current Iraqi government are mired in so much tribal fighting they're not going to get their act together and deal with it themselves. We will help you'

And once the words 'genocide' come up............brilliant speech.......and I hear just now the statements from the White House are getting stronger and stronger 

How does he sleep?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Sevens on Sat Aug 09 2014, 13:40

But why are the US troops throughout the planet? They're not trying to help, instead they're just seeking their national interest. It's ridiculous to me to have other country's troops in you own land in peaceful period. What's the point?
I believe any country with an independent diplomatic policy could sort their issues out and develop well. USA invaded Iraq without any legal reasons-the so called Chemical and Biological Weapon was a joke. If the people couldn't stand their leader, they will fight and eventually overthrow the regime. Our country's thousands years of history had proved this countless times. Civil wars don't need other countries' "help" which would only worsen the situation.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by party animal - not! on Sat Aug 09 2014, 13:58

Absolutely right, Sevens. Bigger question tho is does the world want ISIS to rule several countries. It is now rampaging its way through Iraq, Syria, Kurdistan, Lebanon, beheading at random anyone who gets in their way.

Biggest question of all is who is funding them.

Did you know Qatar fund HAMAS?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Aug 09 2014, 14:10

PAN - I don't think Obama does sleep at night! We in the US are so war weary. We're tired of sending our boys off to die all over the world. Someone needs help or something goes wrong and everyone turns to us first and asks what we're going to do about it. Then they jump all over us for doing something. I can't wait to see what they say about our response to ISIS. Apparently everyone was waiting for us to do something - now they can tell us why we shouldn't have interfered.

I know other countries are helping where they can and they, too, are suffering tragic losses, but there's got to be a better solution. When Obama calls down a military response he's not just mobilising machines - he's decimating a generation of young people whose lives should be better spent than trying to rid the world of barbarians.

Sevens - Every country acts out of self interest - including China. The US is no different. If we have troops in a country during peaceful times it is often because we have been asked to be there to help keep the peace.Your country chose to spend most of its history isolated from the rest of the world because it was in your self-interest. That worked for you, but the rest of the world had to learn to co-exist and find common interests and ways of dealing with one another.

You say civil wars will work themselves out and no one should interfere. Even where genocide is involved? Would you walk away from Darfur, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Cambodia, World Wars I and II?Would you allow ISIS to slaughter anyone who doesn't agree with them? What would you do if they came knocking at your door?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Sevens on Sat Aug 09 2014, 14:17

Well actually I have little knowledge about those conflicts as our country got terrorism attacks quite often and they're just like HAMAS or Qatar. They're burning cars, killing ordinary people with bomb or knife. And our troops are busy saving lives from the recent earthquake.
To me the problems are those people in Middle East seem not to have a clear mind or not that united. Recently in Xinjiang those terrorists were hunted by other thousands of normal people volunteeringly as everyone hates those bad guys even they're from the same religion.
I really don't understand why couldn't the people in Middle East have some belief and stop supporting the wrong forces.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Aug 09 2014, 14:26

Sevens - The people in the Middle East are dealing with fanatics who are supported by power hungry leaders. The terrorists believe they are right and the rest of the world is wrong - and they want, eventually, to rule the whole world. They are well armed and supported, so the average citizen has little chance of defeating them in a battle. Thus they ask the rest of us for help. What would you do?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Sevens on Sat Aug 09 2014, 14:42

LizzyNY wrote:PAN - I don't think Obama does sleep at night! We in the US are so war weary. We're tired of sending our boys off to die all over the world. Someone needs help or something goes wrong and everyone turns to us first and asks what we're going to do about it. Then they jump all over us for doing something. I can't wait to see what they say about our response to ISIS. Apparently everyone was waiting for us to do something - now they can tell us why we shouldn't have interfered.

I know other countries are helping where they can and they, too, are suffering tragic losses, but there's got to be a better solution. When Obama calls down a military response he's not just mobilising machines - he's decimating a generation of young people whose lives should be better spent than trying to rid the world of barbarians.

Sevens - Every country acts out of self interest - including China. The US is no different. If we have troops in a country during peaceful times it is often because we have been asked to be there to help keep the peace.Your country chose to spend most of its history isolated from the rest of the world because it was in your self-interest. That worked for you, but the rest of the world had to learn to co-exist and find common interests and ways of dealing with one another.

You say civil wars will work themselves out and no one should interfere. Even where genocide is involved? Would you walk away from Darfur, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Cambodia, World Wars I and II?Would you allow ISIS to slaughter anyone who doesn't agree with them? What would you do if they came knocking at your door?
Well I think some genocides happen because they've gotten weapons and funding as PAN said. And many of them are from the US, Russia or even China. That's pretty complicated and even Osama was trained by the US to fight the Russia. Maybe the superpowers choose to support stupid forces then they in turn hurt their own interest. It seemed stupid to me to just kill everyone who doesn't agree with you... why not be a wise leader doing things that most people agree with you?


Last edited by Sevens on Sat Aug 09 2014, 14:51; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by melbert on Sat Aug 09 2014, 14:49

Sevens wrote:
It seemed stupid to me to just kill everyone who doesn't agree with you... why not be a wise leader doing things that most people agree with you?

Sevens, from your mouth (fingers) to God's ears...  we could only hope and pray that this could happen.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Aug 09 2014, 19:24

Sevens - It is very complicated. Not only governments, but businesses as well, are involved. They have all kinds of reasons for their actions - most of them self-serving and having little to do with what's right or wrong. If someone spits in Brazil, someone in Brussels gets wet because we're all so interconnected today. There is no easy solution, but people of good will have to do what they can to support each other.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Katiedot on Sun Aug 10 2014, 15:33

LizzyNY wrote:! We in the US are so war weary. We're tired of sending our boys off to die all over the world. Someone needs help or something goes wrong and everyone turns to us first and asks what we're going to do about it.
That's not entirely true: tens of thousands of Iraqis are dead because of the US invasion (happily suported by the British, I should add, who were expecting to get valuable trade concessions as a result). They didn't ask to be invaded and killed, but it was done to them anyway because of a fairy tale called weapons of mass destruction which everyone, the US included, already knew didn't exist. Saddam Hussein was killed because he was 'a threat to us' and now look who's risen to replace him. ISIS make Saddam look like a puppy dog.

President Obama may dress this up as a humanitarian action, but this mess is the making of the US who broke Iraq beyond repair so they have a moral obligation to fix it. Tens of thousands of Iraqi people (not soldiers) have already died at US hands and now it seems more will do so. It breaks my heart to now see the US soldiers who will give their lives (no doubt british soldiers will be right behind them soon enough) to clear up this mess. That, of course, is in addition to the ones who already died as part of this pointless invasion.

Nwo, yes, US soldiers are going to die in humanitarian support, but it's worthwhile remembering how this humanitarian mess came about in the first place.

All governments act in their own self interest (obviously - who on earth would vote for polliticians who want to make other people's lives better and not their own countrymen's?) but I'd rather it was done honestly: genocide is absolutely fine unless the people have oil or gas or other valuable resources and then suddenly it's not fine and has to be stopped.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Sun Aug 10 2014, 16:22

Bush was an asshole who along with Cheney and his cronies invaded Iraq for two reasons:

1.  To try to "get" Sadaam who had put a bounty on Bush Sr.'s head and for Cheney;

2. To make as much money as possible from his company that provided supplies to the US troops.

Oh, and yea, the instability of the oil markets also helped the Bushes and all their oil cronies.

Yes we are all quite aware of the reasons for invading Iraq NOW in hindsight but it wasn't that clear when it happened because our government LIED to the American people and they used someone like Colin Powell a soldier who was respected as the mouthpiece.  Powell I'm sure didn't WANT to make those statements but as a solider he is COMPELLED to obey the Commander-in-Chief without question.

That's what happened here.

Then BUSH again signed an agreement that the US would withdraw soldiers from Iraq by December 2013.  So POTUS honored that agreement and withdrew as we said we would.

That  ISIS is trying to take over millions of acres of land, full countries, isn't because Sadaam is dead.  ISIS is trying to take over because the tribes of Iraq cannot agree on their own government's future.  They are still too mired the in past to move forward.

ISIS wants an Islamic Caliphate in most of Africa, the Middle East and India. 

That's where they want to start. 

Sevens, perhaps your country might be able to take up arms and defend yourselves against ISIS, but too many others cannot.

You can blame Obama all you want for "interfering" in other countries' civil wars" but rational people don't want to see others die needlessly or slaughtered by those who are better equipped and armed.

And yes, I do believe a lot of other country leaders in the Middle East want to see Islamic law and religion prevail in the region.  I believe that because they AREN'T doing anything to stop ISIS.

But I'll bet once the reality of what they will have to live with eventually makes itself clear, they won't be so happy.  These young boys and teens who are  joining ISIS are being brainwashed to believe that their lives will be better than they are now if ISIS is successful in their efforts.  They couldn't be more wrong.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Katiedot on Sun Aug 10 2014, 17:30

LornaDoone wrote:And yes, I do believe a lot of other country leaders in the Middle East want to see Islamic law and religion prevail in the region.  I believe that because they AREN'T doing anything to stop ISIS.

But I'll bet once the reality of what they will have to live with eventually makes itself clear, they won't be so happy.  These young boys and teens who are  joining ISIS are being brainwashed to believe that their lives will be better than they are now if ISIS is successful in their efforts.  They couldn't be more wrong.
Never a truer word was writ.

For ISIS it's something along the lines of a holy crusade - god is behind them - and many governments in the Middle East can't/won't go against them. It'd be the same as US politicians standing up to the more conservative Christian wing. While they may privately think these are nutjobs who need to be shot, in public they know that any criticism will be interpreted as being anti-Christian (as opposed to anti-nutjob) so they tend to keep stumm. This in a country that's secular and has separation of church and state. Imagine how much more impossible it is for a muslim government to go against ISIS. The only thing that will galvanise them is when their own power is threatened. Then suddenly religion won't be such an issue.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Sun Aug 10 2014, 17:39

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/10/world/meast/iraq-isis-sinjar/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Video at the CNN link shows how completely barren the mountains are to where the Yazidi's have fled.




CNN) -- The Sinjar Mountains rise suddenly from the endless desert of northern Iraq, a ridge of craggy rock some 50 kilometers (30 miles) long, running east to west. Barren and windswept, some 1,400 meters (4,600 feet) high, they make a forbidding sight. But for centuries, they have been the refuge of the desperate and a place of mystical importance.

Last week, the mountains saw another influx, as tens of thousands of people tried to escape the rapid advance of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, which now calls itself the Islamic State. Many of them were Yazidis, fleeing the town of Sinjar and surrounding villages in convoys of dozens of vehicles. The lucky ones used smuggling routes to cross into Syria and back into Kurdish-controlled areas of northern Iraq. The less fortunate were either seized by ISIS militants or headed into the mountains.

The Yazidi are an ancient religious sect -- mainly ethnic Kurds -- that worship an angel figure held by many Muslims to be the devil. ISIS has executed Yazidis who refuse to convert to its extreme ideology.

By Sunday, according to Iraqi and Kurdish sources, as many as 20,000 had been able to leave the mountains -- perhaps half of those who had been stranded for nearly a week. U.N. agencies estimated late last week there were as many as 50,000 people in the mountains.

Kurdish peshmerga forces appear to have secured an escape route, but a hazardous one with ISIS militants still roaming the area. According to some accounts, Syrian Kurds also helped people use parts of northeastern Syria under their control to reach Kurdish areas of northern Iraq.

U.S. airstrikes Saturday against several armored personnel carriers used by ISIS in the area may have helped the escape. But President Obama acknowledged Saturday that securing safe passage for those still stranded would be "logistically complicated."

Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International, who is in the region, spoke Sunday of families that had escaped, arriving in the town of Fishkhabour after a circuitous trek through Syria "in terrible condition, fainting from exhaustion." Some had told her that ISIS had abducted women and girls.

Unless food and water reach those remaining, mainly on the southern slopes, they have an impossible choice between dying of dehydration and giving themselves up to ISIS. Daytime temperatures exceed 30 degrees Celsius (86 Fahrenheit).

Video of Kurdish relief mission showed a helicopter landing with supplies on a barren scarp. Hundreds of desperate people ran toward it. Twenty lucky ones were able to scramble aboard for the return flight, many of them hysterical. A few dozen more have been picked up by Iraqi helicopters, which have also been bringing aid to the mountains.

Photographs from last week showed thousands of people abandoning their vehicles before trekking to higher altitudes, carrying what they could. On the northern side of the range, Christians were also fleeing, as ISIS fighters pushed toward the mountains from two directions. A few took refuge in caves, according to those who have escaped. Many more wandered the boulder-strewn slopes.

The U.S. Air Force has carried out three relief drops on successive nights since Thursday, which have included some 50,000 ready-to-eat meals. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the Pentagon had "pretty solid information" that of the 72 bundles dropped by C-17 and C-130 aircraft in the first mission, more than 60 had reached "the people who were trapped up there."

Two more U.S. airdrops followed, the latest on Saturday night, as well as one by the Royal Air Force. The U.N. Children's Fund -- UNICEF -- estimates that at least 20 flights would be needed to keep the thousands trapped alive for a week. France is also planning aid drops.

Crossroads of conflict


The Yazidis settled in the area around Sinjar in the 12th century. The mountains on which they now suffer had a special place in their beliefs. Yazidi tradition held that Noah's Ark had come to rest on the summit.

As a minority, they are no strangers to conflict and persecution. Through the ages, cultures, religions and ethnicities have competed and clashed in this part of Iraq. In the early 19th century, the Kurds, Arabs and Yazidis all had different names for Sinjar. Kurdish fighters invaded Yazidi lands, killing hundreds.

Frederick Forbes, a British colonial officer who visited the area in 1838, said the Yazidis had "kept the whole of the country between Mosul and Nisibin in a state of alarm" until being "pacified" by the Ottoman Empire.

When he reached the town of Sinjar, Forbes found a fertile place fed by mountain streams, but the "ruins of many Mohammedan buildings" recalled earlier battles.

Another colonial visitor, Gertrude Bell, wrote in the 1920s that "until a couple of years ago the Yezidis were ceaselessly at war with the Arabs and with everybody else."

Everybody else included the Turkish army, which had tried to force the Yazidis to convert to Islam in the last few years of the 19th century, a story told by the traveler Oswald Hutton Parry in his "Six Months in a Syrian Monastery," written in 1895.

After the Yazidis had been told to convert, Parry wrote, "none responded. Christianity they were less unready to accept; the Christians were their friends and fellow-sufferers. Islam had always cursed and persecuted them." So the Sultan sent troops commanded by his son to Yazidi villages. "The soldiers slew in all some five hundred men. ... The pretty women and girls he took captive, marrying them by force to his soldiers."

The Yazidis did indeed see Christians as fellow sufferers. A hundred years ago, they helped Armenian Christians fleeing Turkey to settle in the shadow of the Sinjar Mountains, along with Chaldean and Syriac Catholics. But in the spring of 1918, Turkish forces arrived and destroyed the settlement as well as many Yazidi homes.

For a while after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the Yazidis were unsure whether they would end up as part of Iraq or Syria. Eventually, in 1933, an international commission placed Sinjar inside Iraq -- a decision by colonial overlords that would later haunt the Yazidis. During Saddam Hussein's rule, many of their settlements were razed and their inhabitants forced into "collective villages" as a buffer against the troublesome Kurds.

As Matthew Barber writes in the blog Syria Comment,  "Saddam bulldozed countless Yazidi towns until there was nothing left but gravel, and then forcibly moved their former inhabitants into collectives situated in locations that served his strategic interests." At least one of those collectives saw its population swell with refugees from Sinjar in recent days.

Even after Hussein was overthrown, there was little peace for the Yazidis. Relations with Sunni Arabs remained tense, and after a 17-year old Yazidi girl in the town of Bashika was suspected of having a relationship with a Sunni teenager, extremists murdered more than 20 Yazidis.

WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO:

Spoiler:
The girl was stoned to death by her own relatives for daring to have an "impure relationship" -- a so-called honor killing.

At the time, the region was a stronghold of al Qaeda in Iraq and a conduit for militants arriving from Syria to fight U.S. forces. Suicide bombings in August 2007 targeted Yazidi communities in and around the town of Qahataniya, killing nearly 200 people.

One U.S. military raid near Sinjar in October of that year uncovered hundreds of al Qaeda documents listing foreign fighters who had passed through the area.

Now another -- much more powerful -- surge of Islamist militancy threatens the existence of one of the Middle East's most vulnerable peoples.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/meast/iraq-ethnic-groups-under-threat-isis/index.html


Yazidi survivor recalls horror of evading ISIS










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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LornaDoone on Tue Aug 12 2014, 16:11

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/world/gallery/kurdistan-rescue-mission-mount-sinjar/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The picture of the old man followed by the baby made me cry.

Images like these remind me to be grateful for what I have and for where I live. We all have problems but too often, there are others who have it much worse. Be thankful, be grateful don't squander the gifts you are given.

Live life to its fullest. Don't get bogged down in pettiness and spitefulness.

Will keep that as my mantra.




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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Nicky80 on Tue Aug 12 2014, 21:04

LornaDoone wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/world/gallery/kurdistan-rescue-mission-mount-sinjar/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The picture of the old man followed by the baby made me cry.

Images like these remind me to be grateful for what I have and for where I live.  We all have problems but too often, there are others who have it much worse.  Be thankful, be grateful don't squander the gifts you are given.

Live life to its fullest.  Don't get bogged down in pettiness and spitefulness.  

Will keep that as my mantra.





Yes so true....sometimes I have to remind myself too. As a Capricorn it is easy t fall for that negative emotion for a while to let the anger out  Rolling Eyes 

With regards to the pictures....the pic with the old man it looks like he has a tear in his face. I saw lot of pictures in the news the last days. Although we have no political power to change it as we are just small lights in the world but just want to through out that there are lot of charity organisations who help. Whatever somebody can give ...even a little can help....

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Atalante on Tue Aug 12 2014, 22:05

LINK Oh the MEN on this planet !

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by theminis on Tue Aug 12 2014, 22:15

LornaDoone wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/world/gallery/kurdistan-rescue-mission-mount-sinjar/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

The picture of the old man followed by the baby made me cry.

Images like these remind me to be grateful for what I have and for where I live.  We all have problems but too often, there are others who have it much worse.  Be thankful, be grateful don't squander the gifts you are given.

Live life to its fullest.  Don't get bogged down in pettiness and spitefulness.  

Will keep that as my mantra.




True true, and though I stop all the time and smell the roses, I could do a lot more for others than I currently do, so that will also be my mantra.....

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Silje on Tue Aug 12 2014, 22:48

Atalante wrote:LINK Oh the MEN on this planet !
This is a new theory. Supposedly Edward Snowdons leaks shows that US and the Brits and the Mossad created ISIS.

This sounds like a conspiracy theory.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Tue Aug 12 2014, 23:01

Silje wrote:
This is a new theory. Supposedly Edward Snowdons leaks shows that US and the Brits and the Mossad created ISIS.

This sounds like a conspiracy theory.

WTF? The US and the Brits? Maybe, if you mean by their policies and alliances in the Middle East...maybe. But Mossad? Really? Why on earth would they create a group of fanatics whose only goal is to see the end of Israel and the death of all Jews? That's not a conspiracy theory, it's insanity!

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Katiedot on Wed Aug 13 2014, 08:21

Not necessarily. The US and UK have armed all sorts of psychobatshitnutjobs in the past with the aim of destabilising a regime, apparently giving no thought whatsoever to what happens afterwards. One would hope Mossad aren't that stupid, but . . .

One of the most widely held beliefs across the Middle East is 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' and who knows if Israel also subscribe to that lunacy?

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by LizzyNY on Wed Aug 13 2014, 13:29

Katiedot wrote:Not necessarily.  The US and UK have armed all sorts of psychobatshitnutjobs in the past with the aim of destabilising a regime, apparently giving no thought whatsoever to what happens afterwards.  One would hope Mossad aren't that stupid, but . . .

One of the most widely held beliefs across the Middle East is 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' and who knows if Israel also subscribe to that lunacy?

Katie - That belief is a tenet of global politics. It has been the operating logic behnd much of the foreign policy of all governments , probably since the beginning of time, and certainly since WWII. However, in the case of Israel and the Arab world, "my enemy's enemy is still my enemy". They are well aware that there is no one in that part of the world who wants Israel to exist. They would never support, in any way, a group that wants to destroy them. It would be suicide.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by party animal - not! on Wed Aug 13 2014, 14:15

Question: Where is our esteemed(!?) former Prime Minister and now Middle East Peace Envoy??

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

Post by Silje on Tue Aug 19 2014, 01:55

http://www.businessinsider.com/female-kurdish-fighters-are-a-problem-for-isis-2014-8

Too bad they wont be going to heaven if they are being killed by a woman.

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Re: Gawker - USA Either is or isn't or will be boming ISIS in Iraq

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