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Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

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Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by party animal - not! on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 15:21


This is very exciting

I believe this is about Bill Browder's book 'Red Notice' about Putin and the assassination of Browder's lawyer.

And this is what has just happened to him

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/21/russia-british-businessman-bill-browder-interpol

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/23/559463071/state-department-reportedly-revokes-visit-of-magnitsky-act-campaigner

An amazing guy who will not eat anything in restaurants in the UK or anywhere else for that matter because he believes that Putin would poison him.

I bellieve that some time ago he had dinner with George and Amal in London

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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by LizzyNY on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 17:18

State Dept. acted pretty fast on this. Makes me wonder if revocation of Browder's visa is another example of Trump doing a favor for his bff Putin.
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by Donnamarie on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 18:55

Wow. This move is really disturbing. I’m still confused as to how Interpol can allow this to happen. Lizzy I’m with you. It looks like a tip of the hat to Putin by Trump. Everything that this Trump Administration does is suspect in my mind. There seems to have been a very rushed response from the U.S. that seems rather suspicious.

Hope George and Grant will start developing the project soon. This is a good story to get out to the public in a timely manner. It has been a bit disappointing that so many stories that George has obtained the rights to have yet not come to fruition.
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by carolhathaway on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 19:31

Turkey has also sent red notices to Interpol to get 'murderers', 'terrorists' and - of course - 'people who planned the 2016 putsch against Erdogan' -. Most of them are journalists, opposition politicians or others who critisize President Erdogan.

A German writer who was born in Turkey and left his country because he had critisized his government in the 1990s, found asylum in Germany. Turkey had sent a red notice to interpol, and he was warned not to leave Germany because he's safe here. He went on holidays to Spain with his wife. He was imprisoned there, and the Spanish police analyzed the accusations against him before they decided not to dispatch him to Turkey, but he had to remain in Spain for months.

So red notices are something we hear a lot at the moment...
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by LizzyNY on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 19:45

I don't understand how this works. The article states that Russia used a "loophole" in Interpol's protocol called a "diffusion". Don't they have to provide proof of a crime? And if it's a loophole that Interpol is aware of - and that is being abused - why don't they close the loophole?!
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by carolhathaway on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 20:05

Lizzy,
that's the tricky thing about red notices: The country which is sending the red notice, doesn't need to proof a crime, it is responsible that the red notice is acvurate. And Interpol doesn't have to check this either, they simply multiple the red notice. 

https://www.interpol.int/INTERPOL-expertise/Notices/Red-Notices

In the writer's case I just talked about, he was simply lucky that the Spanish police was surprised because he didn't fit the accusations. And since Erdogan also bad reputation, they chose to research themselves.
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by LizzyNY on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 20:31

I always thought Interpol was a responsible network of law enforcement agencies. This is just stupid! How on earth can anyone justify arresting someone and turning them over to possibly be unfairly punished without verifying that they've committed a crime?
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by carolhathaway on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 21:00

Lizzy,
I guess that red notices were originally installed as an instrument to inform other countries: "Hi everyone! Country xy has accused this person to have murdered at least ten people, but the criminal has left the country before we were able to arrest him!"

So of course every other country is warned: "A suspected murderer has escaped from our neighboring country, and since that's quite close to our border, we should warn all our police."

If he had been convicted to have committed a certain crime and had been able to escape, the country would be able to send an international arrest warrant, so the red notice really is a loophole.

The red notice is easier to be misused because you don't need a trial. You can accuse somebody to have committed a crime in your country thirty years ago (which is the reason for the red notice against the German / former Turkish writer). IMO that's abuse of power...
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by Donnamarie on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 21:50

Interpol’s action seems to disregard the motivations of the country requesting red notice action. If Interpol knows that a country in question is known for having a corrupt government shouldn’t that make a difference as to whether they accommodate the request? Or does Interpol see itself as a body to raise the red flag and leave it to other countries to respond as they see fit. They don’t weigh the request, they don’t take any responsibility, they just put out the warning regardless... This just seems reckless.

Carolhathaway, I really appreciate your explanation but I guess I still don’t get it.
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by carolhathaway on Mon 23 Oct 2017, 22:23

Donna,
I tried to differ the instruments countries can use when somebody leaves a country when he's either 
a) suspected to have committed a crime
b) accused to have committed a crime or
c) convicted to have committed a crime.

In any case, you want him back in your country to be able to arrest him and/or warn other countries the person might have escaped to, but you won't always be able to get an international arrest warrant. This instrument tells every police station in every country, which is a member of Interpol, to arrest the person and call the judge who signed the warrant. Even if they know that the person will face death poll there. 

The red notice would be used when an international arrest warning is not available. It gives the authorities a little scope to decide how to act.

Sorry I can't describe it better, sometimes my lack of your language really annoys me...
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 00:03

Carol, you have explained it very clearly. It’s not you at all! It’s Interpol. I guess I don’t understand why Interpol can’t override the action by Russia. It is pretty clear since Interpol previously denied Russia’s request multiple times to put Browder on the list that they considered purely political Russia’s motivation.

And it’s interesting that our State Department reacted so quickly. Wonder what Canada will do? I haven’t heard anything about this on the news here ... yet.
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Re: Smokehouse new project about assassinations in Moscow

Post by LizzyNY on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 00:24

Carolhathaway - Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand it now, but it still bothers me. If a country can't get an international arrest warrant, why should there be a way for the person to be arrested anyway? And if a red notice is just a warning/advisory that the person is wanted, why should other countries be willing to arrest them? It seems to me there isn't much difference between a warrant and a red notice if the results are the same.
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