George Clooney and Amal meeting with Refugees

One thought I would like to add to my last post about this:
The article DoubleZoe posted didn't mention any crimes ON refugees, and I'm not talking about the dangerous journey where refugees risk their lifes. I'm talking about crimes in Germany, committed by Germans (of course there are also crimes on refugees committed by other refugees).
Women in refugees accommodations are sexually harrassed by the security, refugees arriving at the accommodations / camps are threatened by people who live there, people attacked accommodations with refugees, even threw incendiary bombs into houses at night (this happened in a town just 50 miles away, and it was just by chance that  nobody slept in that room and somebody woke up and they were able to escape). A little Syrian boy in Berlin was kidnapped, raped and killed by a pedophil German...

I don't think that one nationality or race is more criminal than others. And I try to fight the prejudices I have myself every day. Because to be homest - we all have prejudices, don't we? Yesterday I was in town with my children, and when we went to the public library there were more than a dozen young men who looked Arabic. And I thought that I do understand why people might be afraid when they see so many of them standing together. Then my handicapped son stumpled and fell, and before I could react three of them came up to help my son.
They were really nice and asked my son if he was okay. 

Of course integrating refugees, means that they have to accept our values.  But these values vary even within Germany, and to say that they are in danger because we have to integrate so many people would mean to define them at first which is quite difficult. 

Women in Germany are equal - except that they still don't get paid as much as men for the same job, that it's usually women who give up their jobs to look after the children or to care for parents. When my kids were small there was no kindergarden or day care available for them until they were three so I had no alternative to stay at home. Forty years ago a married woman in Germany needed the allowance of her husband if she wanted to work, and if he didn't allow it the employee wouldn't employ her. Fifteen years ago a husband was allowed to rape his wife, this was no crime.

When I was at school I delivered magauines to make some money, and there was an older man who always tried to kiss me and wanted me to sit on his lap. When I was younger my breast ot vutt has been touched by men quite some times, and tgey told me what they wanted to do to me - they were never strangers. When I first started working I was sitting at the office, and suddenly I felt somebody following the line of my spine. I turned round a said "Take your hands off" and then realized it was the staff manager. As you can imagine, we never became friends. And when I talked to some collegues about it years later we found out that he had done it to every woman, and somebody assumed that he wanted to find out if we wore bras.
So are we in the position to tell other nationalities that we are much better? I think we have made progresses during the last 40 years, but in  ny opinion it doesn't really matter if the man who sexually abuses you is Arabic or German.

What Would He Say wrote:Oh gosh George what have you said???

The Irish were economic migrants NOT refugees.... Sweet Jesus don't let the Irish press or worse radio get hold of this....

Holding my breath....and saying a little prayer.....



We are remembering the Easter Rising this year 1916..... WE NEVER RAN FOR OUR LIVES. We are The Fighting Irish.....

WE RAN FOR MONEY, WE RAN FOR WORK. we build skyscrapers and roads, we make parachute's and dresses, we teach Latin and cure illness, we invented the hypodermic needle, radiotherapy the portable defibrillator and much in between. We sent nurses to war zones, Priests and Nuns educated and cared for millions around the world unpaid and never to see their families again...we exported Lawyers and Labourers, Doctors and Grave Diggers ALL for economic reasons, NOT REFUGEES.....

Per capita, even during our financial crash, we spent more on third world aid than any other country......

Yes we are the fighting Irish, the economic migrant.....BUT WE WERE NEVER REFUGEES!

And a Happy St Patrick's Day To You All for tomorrow.....


PS. This proves he is Irish. We are storytellers, exaggerator's and great empathisers.....says it all, and anyway who am I the pot that called the kettle or the cat who dared to look at a King .....

ok
maybe too much

buy anyway that was about ppl who left their lands
forever 

and it's always an hard thing
even if not running far from a war


good to know how much they did too!!  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] 



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Mailonline backlash

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Daily Mail has a very good point.

"normal" ppl can share the house
and no one will be particularly interested in it


but 
if those "media ppl" would share a house?

what will happen?


what will happen if some refugees will be seen entering and exiting ?
will they be happy being papped?
or running after by screaming ppl searching for details:
"how is this house? fornitures? knickknacks ??bathrooms???"

it's insane 



they can not sharing a house but they can lend money

we can't know what they are really doing

I agree it's me, celebrity's have to guard their privacy the press would turn up and make everyone miserable.

Not to mention how would the neighbors of these million dollar homes like having all the people around. Security would be even more of a night mare than it already is for them.

Also how do they know which refugees are the good one's not the ones who would bring trouble and danger to George and Brad's homes.

I think they are doing a good job raising awareness and giving their time and money to this very serious cause.

When I first read the DM article I was really annoyed. My first thought was that either George or Amal had somehow ticked off Rupert Murdoch or some big-wig at the DM. Maybe they wouldn't give an interview or respond to some DM request.

But, thinking it over, it is sort of a legitimate question to put to someone who so strongly advocates giving shelter to the refugees and who has so many financial and real estate resources at hand. I think the resentment comes from being asked to do something the celebrity isn't willing to do, knowing how difficult (and expensive) it can be to share your home with people not your immediate family. It's hard even with relatives or friends, let alone strangers.

On the other hand, though they may not open their homes to the refugees, celebs like George and Angelina are doing much more than most of us to help solve the refugee problem. We don't know the extent of their efforts and I'm sure they do more than we will ever know about. I can't fault them for not opening their homes to strangers, as their own security has to be paramount and the risk to their privacy and safety would be too great. I'm just glad they do so much.

Really good points Lizzy.

The Daily Fail has done an excellent job of sensationalizing this issue. The actual logistics of opening up someone's home to a Syrian refugee family is really complicated and as I've said before the U.S. isnt taking in any large numbers of refugees at this time. In the Clooney's situation they travel frequently from home to home so that adds an extra layer of complication. But regardless I think the time, effort and money that they contribute is very worthwhile.

I would ask the question of those who are criticizing celebrities who advocate for a particular cause ... What are YOU doing to help?

Great post, Lizzy.

I firmly believe that both George and Amal stay in contact with people they've helped. We may not be privy to that relationship, but there are some examples.

Valentino Achak Deng is one who's now Minister of Education of a South Sudan territory and head of Mariel Bai school. He met him again recently on the Dutch tv programme but it was obvious that he knew how he was. 

Then there's Ryan Boyette who stays in touch from the Blue Nile and Kordafan area. 


And it wouldn't surprise me to hear that he'll keep in touch with the young mum with the colostomy bag whom he met on Dutch tv

And who knows who they invite to their home.......

True we don't know how much they are involved with the people they meet.

.......what I found interesting was Amal's comment to the refugees that she hopes they get their wish to return  to a free Syria...... 

With all the publicity about refugees and economic migrants in the headlines, you don't seem to hear that too often ..........

People seem to think these people want to stay where they are, that is not the case many , I believe want to go
back to their homeland that they know.

No PAN.... If you read back I have continually said refugee camps are hell on earth....and every refugee I have ever met WANTS to go home....it may not be home as we would think it but home IS home no matter where...

Also..last night I realised what really got me.... That sweet little girl crying on the floor, bravely wiping tears from her face, and the camera's kept rolling, and the grown ups kept talking.....

If you look at the video where the little girl is crying Amal is stroking her hair.

My point was, WWHS, is  that in all the media scrum and footage over the last few months, that has not been heard often enough.

It is a sad fact that it is often the strongest and loudest that you hear from.



And now in some cases it would appear that there are economic migrants and in some cases people who are a security risk.

Now there is a ceasefire in Syria, Lyse Doucet has been able to talk to some who stayed despite everything and are hoping that their friends and relatives will return to help re build a free Syria if peace ensues.

As for the little girl on the IRC piece remember that we only saw an edited version of their conversation, one that would have the most impact.

And I'm sure she will have been comforted....look at the picture of George with her

Amal nice to pat girl hair.Hug would be warm.

Finding it extremely hard to believe that EU leaders have agreed to send back economic migrants to Turkey, whose human rights record is absolutely appalling and where they've just shut down the one democratic newspaper in the country........??!

PAN
I'm not very happy about that either. I do think that Turkey now is a quite dangerous country itself and has none of the values the EU stands for. 

There are many points of view in this crisis:
- A huge number of refugees which are coming to Europe. Many of them first went to countries near Syria (Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon) because they thought the conflict / war would be over soon. 
-The fact that refugees aren't treated as refugees in these countries, don't get any food, a home or medical treatment. So the refugees have to pay for everything, the crisis in Syria gets worse and the refugees run out of money. So many of them resign and decide to go to Europe because there they see a perspective for their future.
- The unequality in payment and income inside the EU. The EU has 28 countries now, and most of them are very poor. If you think about the countries in Eastern Europe like Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania etc., they don't have a strong economyand only became members of the EU to get money. Somebody who lives in our village came from Bulgaria (he's married to a German) said just recently that he never understood why Bulgaria became a member of the EU because they just don't share the same values. And Bulgarie is the poorest country inside the EU, hardly have enough money to feed their own people, and now they're supposed to host refugees as well.
Some countries do have very strong prejudices to muslims, I just had a talk with our priest about this issue. He often goes to Hungary on vacation and said that the Hungarian still suffer from the Turkish invasion at the beginning of the 19th century. I answered what the muslims think about the  crusades 500 years earlier...
- The refugees of course prefer to go to a country where they seem to be more welcome and where people care about them and where they see a perspective for their future.
- And the Turkish president and government certainly take advantage of the situation. I do see their demands as blackmailing.
The EU has been naive for more than three years hoping that the refugees would stay in the Middle East... 

My husband has been invited to a meeting last night together with 600 other volunteers and politicians. The German coordinator for refugees did a speech there, and there were lots of talks about the agreement with Turkey. I think - and that's what our politicians think as well, I guess, that there was no alternative. If they hadn't afreed Turkey would have sent all the refugees to Europe, and Greece had been ran over. I live in a country with no external frontier of the Community but can imagine what it must mean for those. And let's not forget that Greece is still broke...

Well, it is an issue to talk about, definitely. 

Many sides. Very, very complicated. And getting worse by day. Mainly in the countries affected the most, France, Belgium, Germany, Sweden.

Latest agreement EU has with Turkey + paid 6 billion eur is: 1 illegal refugee arriving by boat via sea to Greece will be send back to Turkey. Then 1 "legal" refugee can arrive by airplane straight from the refugee camp. 1 exchanged to an another.  It is ridiculous if you think about it. 

Ok why ? In order to have one legal refugee hand picked from the camp you have to have one illegal arriving FIRST. How an earth with this logic, is this going to stop people coming to Greece and Italy ? Which was the goal for this agreement...

Also someone could be concerned about the situation in Turkey...how safe it is ?

Carla,
I absolutely agree with you. It is ridiculous to use refugees in that way. Abd I also think that it's wrong to differ between refugees who have to leave their countries because there's a war ot they are victims of political persecution on the one hand and those who have to go because their kids are starving...

But as long as countries deny to take TWO refugees per month (countries which said 'yes' to human riggts declaration when they joined the EU), and as long as there are political parties which deal with people's fear in the worst way, that's the world we live in.

But then we have to accept that people die in the Mediterranean Sea and that we are blackmailed byTurkey and other countries. We can just hope that we aren't the next ones who have to refuge and seek for asylum in other countries...

True Carolhathaway. I agree. 

Second thing, I was puzzled by the negative reaction he got in press (in EU) meeting with german chancellor. I mean, it is a free world anyone can meet anybody.

If politician meets other well known person behind the closed door, everyone is crying for transparency. If they meet openly, it won`t suit either. Hard to please the crowd...

Carla,
I didn't understand the negative reactions about their meeting as well. I've read so many negative comments about the refugees' crisis that I stopped reading them, it just made me sad. I don't know in which country you live, but since I'm German we do deal with refugees quite regularly. But that's just because my husband works with refugees as a volunteer, the people in my hometown have hardly anything to do with them, hardly anyone knows a refugee. But there's a big fear that we might turn into a muslim country - we already have about 5 million muslims who live in Germany which is about 6 % of our population. But there's a new party in Germany (like in many other European countries) which calls itself 'Alternative for Germany' and they just announced that the islam is not part of our society which means that they exclude about 6 % of our population...

My father told me a few weeks ago that he would leave Germany if we'd ever get a mosque in our hometown. So I asked him where he wanted to live because we already have a mosque for more than ten years. And the fact that this is not a well known fact shows that there isn't a problem about that. And that's what it should be. I don't have problems with any church, synagoge or mosque as long as they respect our laws and our society.

One of our most successful actors announced last year that he would build a center for refugees just about ten miles away from my hometown. A center where refugees would be able to get any sort of help they need, especially children. I thought that that's a great idea, but he got many negative comments and even death threats for this idea. I mean, we can always have different opinions and share and discuss them, but that behaviiur is just without words...

I think you're talking about two different things. As far as George is concerned, a lot of people think actors and other entertainers should stick to show business and keep their mouths shut about anything else. George has been hearing this for years - especially from people who don't agree with his politics. He's used to it.

The other issue is the way people feel about changes the refugees might bring to the host countries. People like your father, who know little about the refugees except what they get from the media - and that is usually coverage about the most extreme, radical aspects of Muslim culture and sharia law - (which have little tolerance for other cultures). They are afraid of how their own lives may change if these beliefs begin to filter into their own country.

I don't begin to know the answer. It's complicated and there are valid points on both sides of the argument of resettlement. I guess the only solution that would reassure everyone would be for the Middle East to settle its own problems and make it safe for the refugees to return home.

Well, for people to be hesitant about a possible change in their way of life in their own country is perfectly understandable to me. It's a natural reaction often only helped by assimilation and respect from those who seek to live there and are new to the area.....

But of course there is another thread to this and that is tolerance. The western world is pretty good at that, but many do not see the same degree of tolerance of other faiths, beliefs and lifestyle for incomers to those countries that could and maybe should be a haven for many of the refugees and migrants who have lost their homes....

party animal - not! wrote:

But of course there is another thread to this and that is tolerance. The western world is pretty good at that, but many do not see the same degree of tolerance of other faiths, beliefs and lifestyle for incomers to those countries that could and maybe should be a haven for many of the refugees and migrants who have lost their homes....

PAN - That was my point, too. Thanks to the media's focus on the extremists in the Muslim world, and the legitimate (IMO) fear of ISIS infiltration of the refugee movement, there is a lot of anxiety surrounding this situation and a lot of misinformation - or lack of information - about the majority of Muslims in the world. Most of what is reported is not reassuring.

As I said before, I don't have any answers but I do wish the Arab world could find a way to solve its own problems without threatening the rest of the world with violence. I can't believe any religion believes it can only exist if all other religions are exterminated. What are they so afraid of?

LizzyNY wrote:"I guess the only solution that would reassure everyone would be for the Middle East to settle its own problems and make it safe for the refugees to return home."

Good news is that it is possible ! Yes. We have an example, it is called Chechnya, 2 bloody wars, really a boiling point with moderate muslims against extreme muslims mixed with russian troops.

Today, the town is completely rebuilt with beautiful mosques, restaurants, parks. Internet is full of pics of "new" Chechnya, which looks more like Dubai. 

If it was possible there, it is possible in the Middle East, no matter how impossible it appears on a first glance. Besides history lives within people, traditions, cuisine... and Syrians have a long history of everything.

Miracles do happen and I hope some miracle happens with Syria.

Of course the irony of all this is that Syria used to be an incredibly tolerant country of many faiths...

You can completely understand those who ask why other Arabian Gulf countries not doing their fair share in taking refugees and migrants. I think much smaller countries like Jordan and Lebanon who have literally opened their doors to millions are wonderful examples to them. 

I appreciate that there are many forms of Islam. All the more reason for those of different branches to take more or do so much more.......

Interesting interview with the President of Afghanistan recently who has no sympathy for all the (mostly) educated migrants who have left his country having had free university education but have decided not to remain and help. The figure who have stayed is in the tens rather than the hundreds.............

The only viable suggestion I've heard is setting up a "safe zone" in Syria.    But it would have to be coordinated with a coalition force.  Don't think Obama supports this action unless there is alliance with Middle East governments.  And possibly European support too.  I don't think this arrangement would necessarily bring back those who have already left the country but possibly it could stop the bleeding.

I'm not optimistic of this approach (which I think Hillary Clinton supports).  If we put U.S. Forces on the ground in Syria to help protect the zone and even if other Middle East governments physically support the effort and casualties occur it's just going to exacerbate an already bad situation.  And the U.S. again is dragged even further into another conflict.

The Syrian problem should have been tackled by its neighboring countries who have a lot to lose if Syria totally collapses.  But I still don't see on any level where they are taking the lead.  Jordan and Lebanon have done more than their fair share but it's not nearly enough.

This discussion gets more and more interesting! I think we should all show up at the UN and talk to Ban Ki Moon ! Or Obama, Putin, Assad and everybody else who's involved in this conflict!

If all those leaders would have the same interest - to bring peace to this region - it would work, I'm sure. But I don't believe that. There's oil involved, controlling the region, there's the defense industry, should Assad go or stay...

Some of the biggest distributors for the defense industry are German companies. So our vice chancellor called Gabriel is trying to bring peace to the region so the refugees can go back, while on the other hand our minister for economic affairs called Gabriel allows to sell tanks and other weapons to Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia whi then either sell it to Assad or the rebels or ISIS. Doesn't that sound strange?

Donna, I think it would be great to install a safe zone in Syria. You know what I would fear? That somebody would put bombs there. Theoretically there's peace in the Aleppo region, but a few days ago a hospital in Aleppo was bombed, and about 50 people were killed. 
So if all refugees would stay in this safe zone it would be an easy target for everybody who doesn't benefit from a free and peaceful region...

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Here is a link from nytimes, how Aleppo in Syria was in 2010. It was 6 years ago!

Donnamarie - I'm not optimistic for any kind of solution to the region's problems in the foreseeable future. Consider the Palestine/Israel situation and how well that's been handled. And that's been going on since WWII!

As Carolhathaway said, there are a lot of people all over the world who want the region to stay in conflict - not the least of them being the people in power in the region. It's to their economic benefit for things to stay in flux.  It's all about greed - greed for wealth and greed for power.

My personal feeling is a pox on all their houses! The longer the fighting goes on, the more reason they have to hate each other and the less likely there will ever be a peaceful resolution to the problems in the region.

And before anyone says that Israel is the problem, please know that while Israel is far from blameless, if Israel didn't exist the problems in the Middle East would be exactly the same as they are now, except the Palestinians would have to find someone else to blame for their problems.

Now, having completely depressed myself, I'm going to try to cheer up by going out and walking in the rain!

Lizzy NY I am afraid you are right about this conflict... thinking about Greco-Persian wars (and those were before christ) nothing much have changed... oh lord. Well, there was a period of democracy in the middle east, it lasted 30 years. That`s it.

Yes it's totally depressing. It will take years and years and years and years for democracy in the Middle East to develop into anything more than a fantasy.

I'm with you Lizzy. Time for walk. At least the sun is shining here for a bit so I'll walk my dog

Just wanted to say how fascinating it was to read all the comments on the Syrian crisis here today. Thanks Carla, carolhathaway, Lizzy and PAN for the stimulating thoughts today. As a stateside girl I always enjoy reading points of view from our overseas friends!

I also enjoy to share my thoughts with all of you here. It's really great to talk about issues which interest all of us because we all see it from different angles...

IMO western countries will never leave Middle East to solve their own problems as long as there's oil and money to grab. Most of the Western involve not has very llittle to do with actual desire for peace, but more to do with who outside forces want to see in power, who would benefit western countries the most.

Fingersandtoes wrote:IMO western countries will never leave Middle East to solve their own problems as long as there's oil and money to grab. Most of the Western involve not has very llittle to do with actual desire for peace, but more to do with who outside forces want to see in power, who would benefit western countries the mo

Yes, Western involvement has all to do with petroleum politics and keeping in power those who will best benefit them. They favor peace in the region mostly because it makes it easier to do business. It isn't pretty, but it is the way things have worked for a long time.

Consider, though, the problems the Middle East will face if the rest of the world weans itself off oil and goes to solar, wind or other forms of energy - which is increasingly the reality. What will they do then? If they don't want outsiders meddling in their politics, they need to start seriously dealing with their problems.

Good point, because eventually we have think of new (many) ways to produce energy côte à côte with solar & wind. 

But what comes to wars in the Middle East - yes there is money, oil, rebuilding prospects, but the region has been instabile much longer. Way before oil- money jargon, which is completely incomprehensible with so many parties involved. 

Good ancient history book, well written is "persian fire" by Tom Holland. It gives an insight for Syria and Assyria... 500 years bc. things were not so different from how they are today. 

So, so , so solution might take time...

Saudi Arabia is already being affected by the lower cost of oil on the international market. Their economy has been seriously stressed as a result. As I understand the United States is producing more of its own oil compared to what it imports. With the advent of new alternative energy sources the middle east's hold on the international oil market is eroding a bit.

Tribalism IMO is the cause for so many of the problems in the Middle East. It has survived centuries and wars.

I think if we want to continue this discussion we better move it to chit chat cause we've gotten off topic a bit

Good idea and better if left like that...I mean it is spring, summer is on its way, so beautiful. Let`s enjoy !  Positive thoughts 

So true Carla. Like the way you think. There's a lot of dark political stuff going on here in the states right now so got to look forward to warm and beautiful sunny days! Bring on summer. Can't wait.