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Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour Empty Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour

Post by party animal - not! on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 00:41

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8044079/George-Clooneys-coffee-beans-picked-child-labourers.html

          Dispatches, a one hour Channel 4 investigative programme has been to Guatamala and discovered what looks like child labour.

         George has promised to look into it and work on it


Last edited by party animal - not! on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 01:02; edited 1 time in total

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Post by annemarie on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 01:01

[size=34]George Clooney's Nespresso coffee beans 'are picked by child labourers'[/size]


  • An investigation uncovered child labour at farms linked to Nespresso coffee

  • Youngsters were filmed working eight-hour days on plantations for less than £5

  • George Clooney has reportedly earned £31million as the brand's ambassador


By KUMAIL JAFFER FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 17:03 EST, 25 February 2020 | UPDATED: 19:01 EST, 25 February 2020


View comments



George Clooney has pledged 'work will be done' after an investigation uncovered child labour at farms linked to the Nespresso coffee he advertises.
The actor, who has reportedly earned £31million as the brand's ambassador, said he was saddened after youngsters were filmed working eight-hour days on plantations for less than £5.
The probe by Channel 4's Dispatches showed them doing up to six-day weeks picking beans and shifting heavy loads to weighing areas in Guatemala.
Nespresso, known for its stylish coffee machines and capsules, does not publicly list its supplier farms.
But Dispatches said it found information about suppliers in Guatemala, the world's tenth largest coffee producer. Reporters claim they were given access to farms located in remote regions and saw children working at all of them.
Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 25192116-8044079-image-a-52_1582666217852

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George Clooney has pledged 'work will be done' after an investigation uncovered child labour at farms linked to the Nespresso coffee he advertises
The Swiss coffee brand has previously claimed its beans come from ethical sources.
Clooney, who joined Nespresso's Sustainability Advisory Board in 2013, said: 'I was surprised and saddened to see this story. Clearly this board and this company still have work to do. And that work will be done.'
He added: 'Having grown up working on a tobacco farm from the time I was 12 I'm uniquely aware of the complex issues regarding farming and child labour.'
Clooney, who worked on his grandparents' tobacco farm in Kentucky during summer holidays, said he hoped Dispatches reporter Anthony Barnett, who revealed the evidence, 'will continue to investigate these conditions and report accurately if they do not improve'.
'The check and balance of good corporate responsibility lies not just with the company itself but also independent journalists like Mr Barnett to hold everyone's promise to account,' Clooney said.
Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 25192124-8044079-The_actor_58_has_been_Nespresso_s_brand_ambassador_since_2006_an-m-53_1582667654876

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The actor, 58, has been Nespresso's brand ambassador since 2006 and insisted he was 'enormously proud' of its work


Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 25192120-8044079-image-a-54_1582667664778

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The actor, who has reportedly earned £31million as the brand's ambassador, said he was saddened after youngsters were filmed working eight-hour days on plantations for less than £5 (file photo, Tena, Cundinamarca, Colombia)
The actor, 58, has been Nespresso's brand ambassador since 2006 and insisted he was 'enormously proud' of its work. He said he joined the advisory board and groups including the Rainforest Alliance, Fair Trade International and the Fair Labour Association.
He added: 'The goal then, as it remains to this day, is to improve the lives of farmers. Make their farms more profitable. More sustainable. I'm enormously proud of the success of their efforts. They've improved the lives and livelihoods of thousands of farms all around the world.'
Nespresso chief executive Guillaume Le Cunff insisted it had 'zero tolerance of child labour' and promised to investigate. He said: 'It is unacceptable. Where there are claims that our high standards are not met, we act immediately.
'In this case, we've launched a thorough investigation to find out which farms were filmed and whether they supply Nespresso. We will not resume purchases of coffee from farms in this area until the investigation is closed.'
Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 25194092-8044079-image-m-64_1582667834025

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The Swiss coffee brand has previously claimed its beans come from ethical sources (pictured: Nespresso Pixie, Electric Lime)
Dispatches said Nespresso declined to give an interview.
Since its formation in 2000, the company has hired more than 13,000 staff in 76 countries and launched more than 700 boutique stores.
It is not the first time the brand has been accused of forced labour. An investigation by Reuters in December found coffee produced by forced labour in Brazil was stamped slavery-free by certification schemes and sold at a premium to firms like Nespresso.
Dispatches is on Monday at 8pm on Channel 4.
A statement from Nespresso reads: 'Nespresso has zero tolerance of child labour. It is unacceptable. Where there are claims that our high standards are not met, we act immediately. In this case, we were informed by a UK media outlet that they had identified instances of child labor on six farms in a region of Guatemala.
'The media outlet refused to provide us with the details of the farms so that we could confirm whether they supplied Nespresso and immediately address these allegations. However, we have launched a thorough investigation and taken a number of actions.
'First and foremost, we have immediately stopped purchases of coffee from all farms in the region and we will not resume purchases until we are able to investigate and be assured that child labour is not being used. 
'Through the investigation, any issues we uncover will be dealt with diligently and firm action will be taken. 
'We will also double the number of agronomists that we have on the ground in the region and we will implement unannounced visits to check on compliance on social and labour issues.
'All of these actions are on top of our ongoing direct work with farmers and partners in the region and around the world. 
'We work with Rainforest Alliance and Fairtrade International to reinforce good working practices and fair treatment of workers, including education on the risks of child labour. 
'In fact, all of the farms in the cooperatives in this region of Guatemala are Rainforest Alliance and Fairtrade certified. 
'We invest heavily in this effort; in 2019, our 400 agronomists made over 170,000 farm visits and trainings across the world, including 60,000 detailed on farm sustainability assessments. 
'This was backed up by more than 3,300 third party verification farm audits.
'We will continue to do all we can to stamp child labour out. It has no place in our supply chain.
'We are extremely concerned by the allegations made and take them very seriously. We are making significant efforts to address child labor and protect the children in the coffee farming communities we work with, and we will continue to do so.'

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Post by party animal - not! on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 14:17

This story is everywhere today

https://news.sky.com/story/george-clooney-saddened-by-child-labour-at-farms-used-by-nespresso-11943415 

https://deadline.com/2020/02/george-clooney-nespresso-guillaume-le-cunff-child-labour-1202868427/

Methinks George will have to do visibly more - and before the release of the new film. Comparisons of what the children earn and what he's earned from the company abound

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Post by annemarie on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 14:39

George Clooney 'saddened' by child labour at farms 'used by Nespresso'

The Oscar-winning filmmaker has for years been the face of the company, which advertises its products as being ethically sourced.




Wednesday 26 February 2020 11:46, UK


  • GEORGE CLOONEY



Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour Skynews-george-clooney-met-museum-art_4358135

Image:George Clooney is a Nespresso brand ambassador


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Why you can trust Sky News 
George Clooney has said he is "saddened" by an investigation that appeared to show children working at farms used by Nespresso - the coffee brand he has long been associated with.
The Oscar-winning actor and filmmaker has for years been the face of the company, which advertises its products as being ethically sourced from countries including Brazil, Colombia and Costa Rica.

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But Nespresso says it will stop buying coffee from farms in part of Guatemala, the world's 10th largest coffee producer, after a Channel 4 Dispatches programme claimed to have found child labourers working there.

Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour Skynews-nespresso-coffee_4931107
Image:Nespresso says it prides itself on ethically sourced coffee. Pic: Nespresso

Clooney is a member of Nespresso's sustainability advisory board, which works to ensure the company sources coffee from well-run and sustainable farms, and said the report showed they "still have work to do".
"We knew it was a big project when it started seven years ago, and honestly I was surprised and saddened to see this story," said the 58-year-old, who along with wife Amal Clooney is a regular political and social activist.

"Clearly this board and this company still have work to do - and that work will be done.
"I would hope that this reporter (Anthony Barnett) will continue to investigate these conditions and report accurately if they do not improve.






"The check and balance of good corporate responsibility lies not just with the company itself but also independent journalists like Mr Barnett to hold everyone's promise to account."

Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour Skynews-coffee-guatemala_4931105
Image:Guatemala is one of the world's biggest coffee producers. File pic

Clooney, whose recent Nespresso adverts co-starred Game Of Thrones actor Natalie Dormer, said he remained convinced that the company's sustainability programme remained "overwhelmingly positive for coffee farmers".
"(It has) improved the lives and livelihoods of thousands of farms all around the world," he said of the firm's scheme, which works with Rainforest Alliance and Fairtrade International.
"And they've risked their lives trying to rebuild farms in South Sudan and spent a year on the ground helping farmers restore their farms in Puerto Rico after the hurricane."
Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 17b1fda71c320216fb494fb84f4fb86288cdf91bef42200238ac3293c1544b7a_4701528









[size=13][size=18]Obama and Clooney hit the waves
[/size][/size]
Nespresso said it had launched an investigation to identify the farms featured in the Dispatches footage, and said the use of child labour was "unacceptable".
Chief executive Guillaume Le Cunff said: "Where there are claims that our high standards are not met, we act immediately."
He added: "We will not resume purchases of coffee from farms in this area until the investigation is closed. Any issues we uncover will be dealt with diligently and firm action will be taken."


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Post by annemarie on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 14:41

[size=37]George Clooney Is “Saddened” By Claims Of Child Labor Linked To Nespresso, Says “Work Will Be Done” To Improve Conditions[/size]

By Dino-Ray Ramos


Dino-Ray Ramos



Associate Editor/Reporter
@DinoRay

More Stories By Dino-Ray






Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour George-clooney-e1582681553977
Grant Pollard/Shutterstock
It didn’t take long for Nespresso brand ambassador George Clooney to come forward to address the investigation that linked the coffee brand to child labor at their farms.
The news about Nespresso was uncovered by the British program Dispatches on Channel 4 which is known for investigating issues about society, politics, health, international current affairs and the environment. Clooney said he was “surprised and saddened” to read the story which was reported by Dispatches’ Anthony Barnett. They were given access to farms in Guatemala which is the world’s 10th largest coffee producer. After given access to some of the remote farms, reports said they saw children working. However, Nespresso claims they receive all their beans ethically.



RELATED STORY








“Having grown up working on a tobacco farm from the time I was 12 I’m uniquely aware of the complex issues regarding farming and child labor,” said Clooney in a statement given to Deadline. “That’s why I joined the Sustainability advisory board of Nespresso seven years ago along with the Rainforest Alliance, Fair Trade International, and the Fair Labour Association among many others with the goal then, as it remains to this day to improve the lives of farmers.”
Clooney added, “Clearly this board and this company still have work to do. And that work will be done. I would hope that this reporter will continue to investigate these conditions and report accurately if they do not improve.”
Read Clooney’s full statement below.
Having grown up working on a tobacco farm from the time I was 12 I’m uniquely aware of the complex issues regarding farming and child labor. That’s why I joined the Sustainability advisory board of Nespresso seven years ago along with the Rainforest Alliance, Fair Trade International, and the Fair Labour Association among many others with the goal then, as it remains to this day to improve the lives of farmers. Make their farms more profitable. More sustainable. More safe. I’m enormously proud of the success of their efforts. They’ve improved the lives and livelihoods of thousands of farms all around the world. They’ve risked their lives trying to rebuild farms in South Sudan and spent a year on the ground helping farmers restore their farms in Puerto Rico after the hurricane. The simple truth is that this program is overwhelmingly positive for coffee farmers around the world. With that in mind it is also imperative to have talented investigative reporters showing the board where they have yet to succeed. We knew it was a big project when it started 7 years ago, and honestly I was surprised and saddened to see this story. Clearly this board and this company still have work to do. And that work will be done. I would hope that this reporter will continue to investigate these conditions and report accurately if they do not improve. The check and balance of good corporate responsibility lies not just with the company itself but also independent journalists like Mr. Barnett to hold everyone’s promise to account.


Guillaume Le Cunff, CEO of Nespresso also released a statement in regards to Barnett’s report saying that they have “zero tolerance of child labour” and that it is “unacceptable”.
Le Cunff continued: “We’ve launched a thorough investigation to find out which farms were filmed and whether they supply Nespresso. We will not resume purchases of coffee from farms in this area until the investigation is closed. Any issues we uncover will be dealt with diligently and firm action will be taken.”
Read Nespresso’s full statement below.
“Nespresso has zero tolerance of child labour. It is unacceptable. Where there are claims that our high standards are not met, we act immediately. In this case, we’ve launched a thorough investigation to find out which farms were filmed and whether they supply Nespresso. We will not resume purchases of coffee from farms in this area until the investigation is closed. Any issues we uncover will be dealt with diligently and firm action will be taken.
We work with Rainforest Alliance and Fairtrade International to reinforce good working practices and fair treatment of workers, including education on the dangers of child labour. We invest heavily in this effort; in 2019, our 400 agronomists made over 170,000 farm visits and trainings across the world, including 60’000 detailed on farm sustainability assessments. This was backed up by more than 3,300 third party verification farm audits. We will continue to do all we can to stamp child labour out. It has no place in our supply chain.”



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Post by annemarie on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 14:44

I do believe George when he says things will be done to change this.

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Post by Admin on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 19:32

I'm sure he believes things will be changed, but big corporations like this make their money by slave labour, child labour and other unsavoury practices. It's good that he'll be on the warpath over this, but it'll happen somewhere else instead.
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Post by party animal - not! on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 20:22

I agree. But here's hoping that George and his ethical oversight board will try and take the lead on this, starting with at least registering the pickers! It may cut into their considerable profits but it is in Nestle's interests if nothing else, given their track record, to get this right and I would think George might be the man to do it - after all, he won't be wanting heavy questions on this on a red carpet no matter how well he handles it!

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Post by heartlove on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 21:28

I'm sure in in 2 months there will be big changes.

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Post by What Would He Say on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 00:11

Ouch ...
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Post by Donnamarie on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 18:12

party animal - not! wrote:I agree. But here's hoping that George and his ethical oversight board will try and take the lead on this, starting with at least registering the pickers! It may cut into their considerable profits but it is in Nestle's interests if nothing else, given their track record, to get this right and I would think George might be the man to do it - after all, he won't be wanting heavy questions on this on a red carpet no matter how well he handles it!


I agree that George needs to take the lead.  He is their high profile spokesperson.  His reputation as a humanitarian depends on him getting control of this story and putting the right kind of pressure on Nespresso and Nestle to clean this up ASAP!  If the company won’t act quickly and responsibly he should walk away from Nespresso.
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Post by media savvy on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 22:13

What would it look like and what message would it send it George Clooney ON PRINCIPLE resigned from the Board and donated the money he made from Nespresso this year to the very children and communities that have been exploited and who have contributed to the super rich lifestyle his family enjoys.

Why is he making it sound as if his childhood was one of rural poverty.  Wasn't his father a working journalist with TV shows and his mother a former Mayor?

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Post by party animal - not! on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 22:29

Maybe he would think he could  achieve more and ensure the right things would happen if he didn't resign but worked with them and called them out.And if the Guatamalans don't have or cheat on the paperwork who's to know who handed the jobs to children or not? Let's see what he decides to do because it certainly isn't a good look!

As for his family, as I understand it his father's jobs were very sporadic and they had to move from place to place as contracts at local stations ran out, and his mother made all their clothes. I would guess that the job of Mayor is or was an honourary one which didn't necessarily last longer than a year . It's only a small town I believe

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Post by annemarie on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 22:45

The money from Nespresso goes to the satelite program . Pan your right his family moved a lot when he was young they didn't have a lot of money. Ada and George were born I think soon after their parent's were married they were young and 
Nick's career hadn't taken off that didn't happen until the kids were much older as I under stand it.

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Post by Donnamarie on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 23:56

Right. While George’s family didn’t live in poverty they were a family of limited means. He has spoken often about working on a tobacco farm when he was a teen and how grueling the work was.
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Post by party animal - not! on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 16:33

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/01/children-work-for-pittance-to-pick-coffee-beans-used-by-starbucks-and-nespresso

the story continues, and now Starbucks stand accused too. The programme editors have spoken to George. The programme is being aired tomorrow here in the UK

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Post by annemarie on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 16:46

Starbucks

Children as young as eight picked coffee beans for Starbucks
Nespresso also named in TV exposé of labour scandal in Guatemala


Jamie Doward
Sun 1 Mar 2020 02.05 ESTLast modified on Sun 1 Mar 2020 07.03 EST



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Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 3500
 Starbucks has been caught up in a child labour scandal. Photograph: Stefan Wermuth/REUTERS
High street coffee shop giant Starbucks has been caught up in a child labour row after an investigation revealed that children under 13 were working on farms in Guatemala that supply the chain with its beans.
Channel 4’s Dispatches filmed the children working 40-hour weeks in gruelling conditions, picking coffee for a daily wage little more than the price of a latte. The beans are also supplied to Nespresso, owned by Nestlé. Last week, actor George Clooney, the advertising face of Nespresso, praised the investigation and said he was saddened by its findings.
The Dispatches team said some of the children, who worked around eight hours a day, six days a week, looked as young as eight. They, were paid depending on the weight of beans they picked, with sacks weighing up to 45kg. Typically, a child would earn less than £5 a day, although sometimes it could be as low as 31p an hour.






 
Read more


Over the course of the investigation, Dispatches visited seven farms linked to Nespresso and five linked to Starbucks. Child labour was found on all the farms.
A human rights lawyer who viewed some of the programme’s evidence suggested both companies were in breach of international labour regulations laid down by the UN’s International Labour Organization.
“The conventions are very clear in that they don’t want children’s education to be compromised,” said Oliver Holland of solicitors Leigh Day. “If children are working 40 hours a week, there is no way they can also be having a proper education.
“These are all unsafe conditions for children essentially, and in those conditions children simply shouldn’t be working.”

Clooney's coffee beans picked by child labour 1200

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 George Clooney is the marketing face of Nespresso.
Dispatches calculated that of £2.50 spent on a typical cup of coffee on the high street, the shop receives 88p. Staff receive 63p and 38p goes on tax. A profit of 25p goes to the coffee company – such as Starbucks, which has an annual global revenue of more than £20bn, and has nearly 1,000 shops in the UK alone.
After other costs are accounted for, 10p is left for the coffee suppliers, of which 1p goes to the farmer, who uses a fraction of this to pay coffee pickers.
Dispatches reporter Antony Barnett shared some of the evidence with Clooney. Last week, the Hollywood star, who sits on Nespresso’s sustainability advisory board, said: “I was surprised and saddened to see this story. Clearly this board and this company still have work to do. And that work will be done. I would hope that this reporter will continue to investigate these conditions and report accurately if they do not improve.
“The check and balance of good corporate responsibility lies not just with the company itself but also independent journalists like Mr Barnett to hold everyone’s promise to account.”
Nespresso’s chief executive, Guillaume Le Cunff, said: “Nespresso has zero tolerance of child labour. It is unacceptable. Where there are claims that our high standards are not met, we act immediately. In this case, we’ve launched a thorough investigation to find out which farms were filmed and whether they supply Nespresso. We will not resume purchases of coffee from farms in this area until the investigation is closed. Any issues we uncover will be dealt with diligently and firm action will be taken.”
Starbucks also said it had a “zero tolerance for child labour anywhere in our supply chain”. It told Dispatches: “We’ve launched a full investigation into the claims brought by Channel 4, carried out in partnership with a leading third-party auditor.”
Barnett said: “It’s great that George Clooney supports our investigation but if he is serious about sorting out this issue, he needs to make sure Nespresso puts its money where its mouth is. It’s far too easy to announce an investigation and halt supplies from these regions but this will further punish the farmers and desperately poor families who rely on them. The reason these kids are working is that their parents – and the farms they work on – are not paid enough.“

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Post by Admin on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 11:17

I don't know if anyone saw the programme? It was very interesting. Starbucks got it in the neck too. I'd guess that there's been a lack of oversight in Guatamala itself (and although they didn't suggest it, my guess is that someone's on the take) because all the farms they visited had children working on them.

The sad thing is that I don't think there's a reliable way for them to stop this from continuing.
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Post by LizzyNY on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 15:53

Katie - It probably isn't possible to stop child labor completely. Families put their children to work because they need the money. Their wages are so low that without the money the kids make the family couldn't survive. Raising wages isn't enough. Systemic changes need to be made.
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Post by NotAvailable on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 14:37

Yes, Katie and Lizzie. Much more needs to be done. But Nespresso and Star Bucks can't really solve the main problem, that economy. They can only try to help by taking less profit for a while, and looking into other ways that businesses may be able to aid the struggling economy. There are other farms besides coffee farms. It might help to get more partners into using some of the other products the country can supply. But you are right when you say that child labor is part of the country's economic problem. But forced labor should def be stamped out.

The payments has much to do with the value of their dollar, compared to other countries. Its a pittance, truly, but as in Mexico, rates fluctuate a lot, going down. But the ppl living with that can only dream of making better money, because their dollar value isn't like it is everywhere else.

This is prolly why we see so many families trying to cross the Mexican border. Pittance earned and certain prices going up on needed things to sustain themselves with. Supply and demand is always what drives things in every country. But when those governments does little to help their economy improve, the ppl suffer for it.

I know that you ladies prolly stay on top of these types of situations, but it truly bothers me. Our country could suffer the same, if things continue to go down hill, and big business continues to control and horde production of needed products. It truly is an important election coming up. We need to get this administration out of the government. Before it does something that cannot be changed or improved.

Remember when the gov broke up Microsoft because it was too big, in their estimation and could possibly gain control of most of the information business through their many devices and many companies beneath them?

Most of our most important businesses are part of oligarchs that have control of pricing and supply. That cannot be an accident. Prices keep going up.  Who can afford anything else, like cable, when you pay $80 just for internet. Mine went up from $54 in 3 short years, since Trump gave them the right to. He removed all regulations that control that. Gave the wealthiest investors a big tax cut on what they would owe to the federal gov on investments.

Then removed most of the poor off of Welfare, Medicare and SSI. Thats when there was a huge problem with poor ppl in the streets. Guess who has to help them? Not the gov. Other ppl who are barely making it themselves and a few organizations that normally have to work in other countries. I saw snotty nosed ppl who were well off complaining against the poor ppl who had no choices of where to go. Most were republicans. And some called themselves christians.

The jobs he touts are mostly low wage jobs and require experience that most poor ppl won't have. Because its not fast food services, which anyone could learn to do. I should stop as there are just too many things to list here. Needless to say, I am not a supporter of anyone who hurts the country the way he has, not to mention other poor countries. Withholding aid and support from Ukraine to force it to lie about investigations into a political opponent, is prolly just the tip of the iceberg.
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Post by party animal - not! on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 15:09

I could not have put it better myself, NotAvailable. 

As soon as I can find the Dispatches programme on Channel 4 which went out in the UK on Monday, online I will post it and we'll all be able to see the depth and complex nature  of the problem where everyone in the family young and old climbs high into the jungles of Guatamala to work picking the coffee beans for ten hours plus and then carry the enormous weight of a sack on their backs for the equivalent of a couple of dollars so that they can eat. The food chain figures are staggering - including Nestle's earnings.....

Ps I have to say at this moment in time I am quite grateful to live where I do.....

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Post by annemarie on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 15:36

Pan even though I live the thing heads the country , I am grateful to live here.

Couldn't agree more NotAvailable.

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Post by heartlove on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 16:36

Corporate business has ran our government for the last 20 years I can't blame the man in the white house.  The biggest mistake I've made in my life is trusting the social conservative political movement, however I've gained tremendous insight as a result.  

 Not available, I expressed the exact same concerns regarding the economy during 2016 election.  President Trump has disrupted a lot of Obama's political moves, however he has not touched Affordable Care Act the most destructive legislation I've known in my lifetime.  

The only difference from previous administrations is President Trump has no problem informing the public of his highly questionable/unlawful political moves.  Previous administrations made unthinkable political moves that have left the majority of us in an over-the-top oppressive state.

Biden is an extension of the Bush/Obama administrations and will lend zero change.  He will blame the catastrophe on the Trump administration when devastation hit the financial markets globally.  What happens when the upper middle class lose their life savings, 401ks, kids college fund ect...?

What's the answer?  We are like sheep being lead to financial slaughter.

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Post by LizzyNY on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 17:47

heartlove - The intertwining of the world's economies has led to global corporations that influence governmental policies in most of the world. This goes back thousands of years, but the more we are connected the more powerful these corporations and oligarchs become.

That said, there are still decent people trying to do good. Why do you say that ACA is "the most wicked/evil legislation" you've seen in your lifetime? What is so evil about trying to bring affordable health care to as many people as possible?
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Post by heartlove on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 18:17

LizzyNY wrote:heartlove - The intertwining of the world's economies has led to global corporations that influence governmental policies in most of the world. This goes back thousands of years, but the more we are connected the more powerful these corporations and oligarchs become.

That said, there are still decent people trying to do good. Why do you say that ACA is "the most wicked/evil legislation" you've seen in your lifetime? What is so evil about trying to bring affordable health care to as many people as possible?
Real life experience, to unthinkable to believe, unless you have lived through it.  

Meaning even if I told you, you would not believe it.  I will tell you the ACA was designed to put our health care system in the hands of big business.  The California Health Care system under the ACA are accountable to NO governing body.  Meaning you can walk into a hospital contracted with state under the ACA, they can impose life threatening treatment and give an account to no-one.  

I know, I've lived through it with 3 family members.  At this point PPO and Medicare have stricter standard of care practices.   I've taken both of my parent off state subsidized insurance, they just have medicare.  I can't afford PPO for my brother, he is subject to the diabolical ACA state ran insurance.   That's why when the question was asked at the democratic debate, 90% would not be willing to give up their PPO insurance.  

Health care systems that fall under the ACA can do whatever the hell they want; and they do.  Do you have insurance governed by the ACA?  The Supreme Court has agreed to review the courts previous decision, I pray they find it unconstitutional.

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Post by LizzyNY on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 18:51

heartlove - I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with ACA sponsored health care. I have not had the same experience, nor do I know anyone who has. That doesn't mean I think the system is perfect. It isn't. It needs a complete reassessment and many changes need to be made, including massive changes to the insurance industry.

However, if the Supreme Court finds ACA unconstitutional millions of people will lose what health care they have - and I haven't heard that the Republicans have anything to put in its place. To me that's more evil than perpetuating a flawed system.
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Post by heartlove on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 19:22

Finding the ACA unconstitutional is better than giving those operating under ACA the legal cover to murder you.

Republicans like the ACA, that's why nothing has been done to it.

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Post by LizzyNY on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 20:16

The Republicans are the ones trying to get the Supreme Court to overturn the ACA. They've been trying to destroy it since it was enacted.
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Post by heartlove on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 20:33

LizzyNY wrote:The Republicans are the ones trying to get the Supreme Court to overturn the ACA. They've been trying to destroy it since it was enacted.
Mike Huckabee an honest social conservative republican was on the team that brought the first U.S. Supreme Court ACA case.  It was the Bush (Bush Sr./Bush Jr.) republican appointed 5-4 Supreme court that upheld the ACA.  It was that same appointed Bush court that extended the right to gay marriage.  The Republicans have made you believe they want to overturn it, however THEY NEVER DO.

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Post by LizzyNY on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 22:48

Well, they're trying again now and if they succeed it will be disastrous for many, many people. With drumpf in office don't count on it being upheld again.
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Post by annemarie on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 23:34

Heartlove I'm sorry You had problems with ACA, but the fact is many people will suffer it it is removed. People all deserve a
 chance to receive medical care. This administration has no back up plan , they will simply as the idiot stated repeal it and replace it later. UH no people will die if this is allowed to happen.

Every new idea has problems, this administration instead of repealing it should try fixing it. That won't happen because the idiot wants his name on whatever comes next.  
That could be even worse than what we have as he never listens to people who know about these things.

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Post by heartlove on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 00:57

I'm sure President Trump was paid by the health care industry to keep his hand off the ACA.  A law that allows those operating under ACA, legal cover to murder you can not help anyone.  It's the worst law since the institution of slavery.  Don't worry Biden likes it.  


Side note:  "Not Available", I have proof if you are interested.

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Post by annemarie on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 01:25

The only reason Trump hasn't succeeded in repealing , is that there are those who are fighting him and see the bigger picture. Millions without health care some gravely ill left to perish because they are too lazy to  try and fix the problem
with the ACA. There are those who have no problem with the ACA .

Heartlove what happens to the people who need ACA and have no other insurance?

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Post by heartlove on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 01:35

There are free clinics any person can go to, that was in place before the ACA; I've been to them.  That was not made clear to a wide audience.   Hospitals can not turn away patients, that was the case even before the ACA.

What's bigger than a law that allows health care providers operating under ACA, the legal cover to murder people.

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Post by party animal - not! on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 04:39

Fact: the so called free clinics are not free at all - you still have to pay. Furthermore you have to wait forever to get an appointment with a specialist - presumably because they'd rather earn megabucks than care for people who can't afford to pay vast pharmaceutical corporations even more money. It's not a good look when your country can't even get test kits to a cruise ship's passengers. Reason? Trump shut down the Pandemic unit of the CDC for two years and jow claims to be a genius at all things medical. Embarrassing.

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Post by LizzyNY on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 04:53

Very Happy And you asked me if I trusted the government to handle things properly?!! Very Happy Very Happy drumpf's so busy making up stories he almost forgot to blame Obama for this mess. We get more reliable information from late night talk show hosts than from the government.
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Post by heartlove on Sat 07 Mar 2020, 05:31

party animal - not! wrote:Fact: the so called free clinics are not free at all - you still have to pay. Furthermore you have to wait forever to get an appointment with a specialist - presumably because they'd rather earn megabucks than care for people who can't afford to pay vast pharmaceutical corporations even more money. It's not a good look when your country can't even get test kits to a cruise ship's passengers. Reason? Trump shut down the Pandemic unit of the CDC for two years and jow claims to be a genius at all things medical. Embarrassing.
PAN:  The free clinics are all over, they charge on a sliding scale.  If you don't have money, they will not charge you.  

I'm not sure what your referring to, if your case is serious you can get an appointment.  The clinic I went to had a pharmacy, if you did not have money to pay, medication was extended to you.

I'm not sure why you think the ACA made it better for people who could not afford health insurance.  Under the ACA poor people are getting substandard care and wage earners are paying astronomical fees.  

Trump had NOTHING to do with the implementation of the ACA.  Trump's campaign touted it was get rid of the ACA.  The first two years  republicans had the majority in the House and the Senate and they did NOTHING  to eliminate the ACA.  The Health care system is ran by big business the same corporate business that fund political campaigns. I live in California the legislature is controlled by democrats.  The state ran health insurance under the ACA is DIABOLICAL .  

I tried to get help from the Governor, Attorney General, the Department of Managed Health Care, my state Assembly-representative.  All of them have the medical records that show unthinkable DIABOLICAL STANDARD OF CARE AND THEY DID NOTHING


The California state health care system was not like before the ACA.  I talked with a nurse about the state of health care under the ACA, she told me the best thing to do is: DON'T GET SICK.  I can only hope everything will be done to combat the corona virus.

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