The Serious Side - part 2

party animal - not! wrote:Surely this is illegal.........

https://thinkprogress.org/under-political-pressure-kuwait-cancels-major-event-at-four-seasons-switches-to-trumps-d-c-1f204315d513#.hpxawp4ji

PAN, do you think this is true?

PAN - I don't think it's illegal - just disgusting! What a bunch of gutless wonders! Hopefully they'll leave enough of a trail that conflict of interest can be proved.

IMO, the best revenge on Trump would be a complete boycott of any business or product in which he has any interest or from which he gets any money at all. (It has crossed my mind to mail cockroaches to all buildings with his name on them, but I don't know where to get that many bugs and I doubt they'd survive the trip. If they did, I'd love to be there when the envelope was opened. ) Seriously though, I hope he comes out of this a hell of a lot poorer than when he went in.

LizzyNY wrote:PAN - I don't think it's illegal - just disgusting! What a bunch of gutless wonders! Hopefully they'll leave enough of a trail that conflict of interest can be proved.

IMO, the best revenge on Trump would be a complete boycott of any business or product in which he has any interest or from which he gets any money at all. (It has crossed my mind to mail cockroaches to all buildings with his name on them, but I don't know where to get that many bugs and I doubt they'd survive the trip. If they did, I'd love to be there when the envelope was opened. ) Seriously though, I hope he comes out of this a hell of a lot poorer than when he went in.

Lizzy you believe this report is true?

It's true, Ladybug. Be in no doubt.

I also notice that Mr Trump appears to be a spokesman for Isis now. He seems to making annoucements for them thus saving them the job! A different kind of diplomacy?

Lizzy, you've seen #Grabyourwallets haven't you? People are boycotting Trump goods, all of which are made in China or Mexico - surprise, surprise..........

Whatever happened to conflict of interests and acting honourably and in a presidential manner!!??

Regarding the grabyourwallet movement

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-related-businesses-boycotted-2016-11/#belk-3


I'm not convinced this effort is going to endure.  Once this guy is in the White House and it's a done deal I think many people are going to just move on.  Of course if Trump is disastrous from the start of the Presidency and the media keeps hitting him hard his name (his biggest asset) may take a significant hit.  We will see.

His conflicts of interest are immense.  At the very least the media will probably keep reporting stories like the Kuwaiti event switch to the Trump Hotel.  The Washington DC hotel is actually owned by the Government.  After Jan. 20 Trump will be the landlord of a government building.  Can you imagine the implications and suggestive "pay to play" of foreign officials in cities across the world where hotels exist that carry the Trump name on them?  What a convoluted mess!

ladybug - Yes, I believe this story is true. I don't know who the Trump "representatives" are who are apparently making it known that access to the president-elect is for sale (and by inference - and Trump's temperament - that not going along to get along may have unpleasant consequences). It may not be sanctioned by Trump, but his people wouldn't do it if they thought he'd object. Who knows, they may see it as a last chance to make a few bucks before he's sworn in and this kind of crap becomes seriously unethical and grounds for impeachment. Don't forget, he's not the President yet.

Donnamarie - I don't know if the boycott effort will endure or if it will even have any effect. Since he won't open up his tax returns we don't know where his money comes from. I''m guessing it's mostly real estate and licensing - neither of which is likely to be affected much by a boycott unless they start taking his name off of things .

As far as not buying his products is concerned, I already don't and I think they're out of the price range for many people anyway. That said, it would be really brave of some major newspaper to publish a list of every product or company known to be affiliated with Trump. Yes, I know the information is on line, but if people had a paper list they could stick it on the fridge or something and have a constant reminder of what not to buy.

My concern is that there are too many in Congress who won't call him out on this either because they're afraid for their jobs or because they're financially tangled up with his interests.

Lizzy your last statement is my biggest concern.  Already the bar is set so low for Trump. The majority Republican Congress doesn't  want to upset the apple cart.  After they have all come around to accepting this man as their leader how embarrassing would it be for them to have to point out any potential wrongdoings.  They will give him a very long leash IMO.  And that could be a real problem if Trump does something that could be considered impeachable.  I'm not so sure the Republicans will get on board no matter how much the Democrats fight for impeachment.

Trump has the mindset that as President he can do anything.  There can be no conflicts of interest for him as President.  However if those in the White House, like his daughter or son-in-law, get caught up in his conflicts they would be in deep trouble.  However Newt Gingrich (another piece of work) remarked this week that all Trump has to do is grant a blanket pardon to get them all off the hook.  Just the optics of that is mindblowing!

I am waiting to see how long it will be before he reinstates the draft. That is a part of his plan to make America
great again. The one's who voted for him don't seem to get it, it will be your children and grandchildren forced into
service. And unlike him they won't get four deferments to avoid serving.

So Newt Gingrinch said today on NPR that Trump does not want to use the phrase "drain the swamp" anymore.  He thought it was "cute" and catchy during the campaign, but now he doesn't like it.

Gingrich also suggested that Trump could pardon his kids--and advisors on his staff-- for any wrongdoing/ ethical violations that occur when he is in office. In advance!

I can see him pardoning everyone why wouldn't he.

Some years ago our former president was accused of personal advantage because he had gotten an upgrade during a private flight with his family. He had been Ministerpresident in my federal state at time and was said to have either refused this uograde or pay for it. There were other accuses like businessmen paying his hotel bill. In the end he had to resign. Compared to what Trump already did, that's peanuts...

Terrible news for the people of Germany, Carol. I'm so sorry.

I feel the same carolhathaway.  My thoughts are with you.

Thanks, PAN and Donna!
I guess you're referring to the terror in Berlin, not the resignment of our former president some years ago. I just wrote that to set issues in a perspective. My husband also (besides of marrying people) fights against corruption in the local authority he works for, and we really have strict parameters about if we are allowed to accept a gift by a visitor. 
The secretary of our mayor told me last year that the mayor received a small, unspectacular bowl of china, given to him by a local bank for christmas. He then asked his secretary to find out anything of the prize, and when she checked the internet, she realized that this small bowl was sold for about 100 €. So he should have refused this present, but it had looked awkward if he'd returned it to the bank. So instead they now use it in the town hall's kitchen to present sweets (and he hopes that somebody breaks it).

But to talk about a real serious issue, the attack in Berlin. This was horrible, and it so much reminded us to the attack in Nice in summer... The problem is that you can't protect every public event with free access for everybody. We've got thousands of christmas markets in Germany - some very popular ones quite nearby - you can't block evedy road to these markets because people who live nearby, need to get to their homes by car, and the traders at the markets need to get new goods as well. 
And if you would block every road to such a market and would strip-search every visitor, there'd still be no absolute safety...
Or assassins would drive vehicles into a pedestrian zone or somewhere else...
At the local christmas market, people were interviewed, and they all said that they don't fear (well, those who do, don't visit this event, so they are not interviewed.) But it does worry me tgat they still haven't caught the assassin. And that some right-wing idiots knew immediately who it was, while our police still tried to find out what had happened, and many people said: "Wait until we have results! Don't speculate! Don't spread rumors! Don't post videos or pictures! Send them to the police!" Remember something a very well-known guy said at the Golden Globes in 2015? "We will not walk in fear! We won't do it!"

Carolhathaway - It saddens me how often we meet here on COH to discuss something like this. We used to come together to talk about George's exploits and joke and trade recipes and get silly. It was all for fun.

Now we come together to console each other and try to make sense of the world around us. I don't understand why it is so difficult for us to work together share the blessings of our planet. How miserably unhappy some people must be to do the horrible things they do.

I guess we are only reflecting the global reach and thoughts we all now have in good times and bad and the fact that we have this space can only be good. Hopefully His Nibs would find it admirable.

Tragic that I gather there is a monument/church to peace in the square where this happened, Carol and entirely possible it would be somewhere the likes of Daesh would want to target.

So pleased to hear tho, that cc tv is now being put in place (I understand all the reasons why it's done reluctantly and that no-one wants to return to the Stasi)

Some people here in the UK used to complain about the invasion of privacy of them. No longer. People travel now feeling reassured. And that includes me. If I go into town on the train on my own and return late in the evening I feel better for the fact that someone is watching over me.........

party animal - not! wrote:Tragic that I gather there is a monument/church to peace in the square where this happened, Carol and entirely possible it would be somewhere the likes of Daesh would want to target.

PAN,
tgere actually is a very well-known church next to that christmas market, it's the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church, a church which was destroyed during the bombings in WW II, and the ruin was left as a memorial for peace and against terror and tyranny...

If anybody wants a pic of the church:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Ged%C3%A4chtniskirche1.JPG

The christmas market there was re-opened today...

I think it was a real good decision to open a thread to talk serious issues. I hadn't seen this need in the beginning, but see it now. Because we can pre-select what we want to read.

And by the way: I'm sure George wouldn't mind that we discuss these issues here, I'm pretty sure that what he talks about with his wife, family and friends as well...

Carolhathaway - I'm sure you're right about George not minding that we use this forum to discuss issues much more important than the doings of a movie star. It just makes me sad that there are so many seriously troubling issues for  us to talk about instead of "Where is George?" or "What did Amal wear to dinner?".

Lizzy,
you're absolutely right about that. It is sad and frightening as well. Although I enjoy these discussions much more than discussing Amal's dresses...

But - if I remember  right - when there were wars abouf 20 years ago, let's just say the Iraq wars - you saw pics on newspapers and watched videos in the news. Now we are able to watch it nonstop - not just by reporters and journalists, but also by people who actually live there, are citizens. They film and report what happens in their city and country and put it on youtube so we're able to watch it minutes after it had happened. And that's new and leaves us with fewer distance. It's easier to ignore conflicts by not watching the news, it's much more difficult to ignore it when you see reports everywhere.

And that's good IMHO.

Carolhathaway - I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, we do get a closer non-stop look at conflicts all over the world, but sometimes I think it's too close. The stories we see come from very personal - often biased- perspectives.

I was going to say we get a more balanced view from an uninvolved impartial news source but I don't think there is such a thing anymore, I'm also not sure it does much good to know so much about all these problems when there's so little we can do about them. It just adds to the stress we're all feeling.

Lizzy,
of course we have to differ between a report by a journalist - where we have to consider the political view of the newspaper or tv station - and a subjective tweed or report by a 'normal human being' - which may tell the truth or not.
And that's stressful, I absolutely agree with you about that.

If you remember wars or conflicts in the last century - just imagine we already had the internet. French and German soldiers had been abke to report or tweed from Verdun and told others: "This is the most horrendous place on earth, don't join the army!"  Jews being able to warn others about Hitler's plans about tge Holocaust (because many of them knew about that) or US soldiers talking about Vietnam - or, just as important, people from Vietnam talking about the ongoing war...

We Germans wouldn't be able to say: "We didn't know what happened to the Jews". We all weren't able to say: "If only we knew...".
Although I don't know if this would make any difference. Since we all know what happened in Aleppo and didn't do anything to help these people...
I guess it's easier to say: "But that's so far away!" But how close does it have to be? I remember the war in former Yugoslavia in the 1990s which was just about 1,000 miles away. Still too far away?

Carolhathaway - That's what I meant. We know about so many of the horrible things that are going on. We tweet about them and talk about them. We put the stories all over the media - and yet very little changes. We can't figure out how to make it stop. It's depressing and frustrating. I wonder if the people in the past that you were talking about felt the same way.

The Donald just announced 5,000 new jobs that had already been announced - so nothing to do with him! And then proceeded to congratulate himself. Unbelievable.

Does he really believe people are this gullible? And if so, what on earth is he trying to imply about American intellect? Surely people are not going to be fooled by this.......?!

party animal - not! wrote:The Donald just announced 5,000 new jobs that had already been announced - so nothing to do with him! And then proceeded to congratulate himself. Unbelievable.

Does he really believe people are this gullible? And if so, what on earth is he trying to imply about American intellect? Surely people are not going to be fooled by this.......?!

You really never want to be fooled; always seek, search, find, and operate in truth.

PAN - He's not implying anything. He doesn't know the meaning of the word. He just thinks (if he actually thinks at all) that we're all as stupid as he is.

There do seem to be some small glimmers of light shining. The Democrats are organizing to mount an opposition to his agenda and some of the things he's been doing and saying are making even his supporters uneasy. I think we're in for a very bumpy four years.

Ladybug - It's hard to find the truth when a lot of the "media" is based more in opinion than fact. Many people don't want to go to the trouble of tracking down the truth. If they did, Trump wouldn't be President.

LizzyNY wrote:Ladybug - It's hard to find the truth when a lot of the "media" is based more in opinion than fact. Many people don't want to go to the trouble of tracking down the truth. If they did, Trump wouldn't be President.

Thinkers and people who seek truth did not vote for Hillary.  That's why the electoral college exist.

SPOILER ALERT....SEVENS LOOK AWAY NOW!....

My Father had a saying "The nearest thing to a genius is a madman".....So maybe we should examine just a little closer what the madman is saying....

One thing I think he has got a handle on is China....

Look around you...we are all awash with Chinese goods.....I know for a fact that some products are being sold on alibaba and aliexpress for LESS than manufacturing cost.....Everybody in my country has bought something from China (including my Doctor who produced a nifty gadget for measuring your oxygen 1/10th of the price direct from China)......

Think about it please....Europe's largest employers are small/medium sized businesses.....they create the biggest revenue (I don't know about U.S).....

They are being put out of business on a daily basis by China!!!

So now project a couple of years down the road....your town shops have gone the UK High Street is empty...no card shops, no Chocolate shops ......just big big businesses.....All supplied by China.....until....

CHINA BUYS THEM.....

Where do we go at that point China dictate what we wear, eat, hear and see (ppl sell internet providers)...where we stay (they have purchased 3 luxury hotels within 15miles of me), what we rent, the wine we buy(they buy vineyards) and above all THE PRICE WE PAY.....

It's the long game....and it's my personal gut feeling....jmo

Just wonder does The Donald share a bit of my gut .....we have similar hair.....

ladybug - I didn't say they would have voted for Hillary. I said they wouldn't have voted for Trump. And I really resent you implying that her supporters don't care about the truth. Do you mean that everyone who voted for Trump - the proven biggest liar on the planet - are all seekers of truth?! And NO that is NOT why the electoral college exists! It exists because slaves were only counted as 2/5 of a person. Want to know why that mattered? Read a history book!

party animal - not! wrote:The Donald just announced 5,000 new jobs that had already been announced - so nothing to do with him! And then proceeded to congratulate himself. Unbelievable.

Does he really believe people are this gullible? And if so, what on earth is he trying to imply about American intellect? Surely people are not going to be fooled by this.......?!

People really are that gullible. He can claim anything on twitter, and it's believed by his fans. FANS! And he has the spineless media bending backwards to appease him.

Fingersandtoes wrote:

party animal - not! wrote:The Donald just announced 5,000 new jobs that had already been announced - so nothing to do with him! And then proceeded to congratulate himself. Unbelievable.

Does he really believe people are this gullible? And if so, what on earth is he trying to imply about American intellect? Surely people are not going to be fooled by this.......?!

People really are that gullible. He can claim anything on twitter, and it's believed by his fans. FANS! And he has the spineless media bending backwards to appease him.

Fingersandtoes, no, he has them bending forwards and spreading their collective buttcheeks.

Well, it's all academic in a way becos, as His Nibs would say, the truth of the matter is........that the USA is in debt to China by billions and billions anyway, so that at any point they could basically pull the plug if they so wish.



And that is why upsetting China in any way is not such a great idea.................

Unfortunately many people are really gullible. Despite the facts out there about Trump people just didn't care.  They cared about what they believed were Hillary's lies.  But not Trump's.  They all want to believe he can do all these great, huge and fantastic deals that are going to make our country great... again.  He might as well be a magician.  

It's funny but some of Trump's supporters are really concerned now about their Obamacare being taken away from them.  They claim they didn't really think he meant it when he promised to repeal the law.  Just like many of them didn't think he was serious about building "The Wall".  Seems like they all loved his bombastic rhetoric so much that it didn't matter that much what he was proposing. Bottom line is the country would be better than ever after Trump had his way with it.   

What's worse than a gullible electorate is the vast number of Americans who are simply uninformed or ignorant of the news.  Not talking tweets here but news you get from MSM.  They know even less of what's going on in the world at large.

Donnamarie wrote:Unfortunately many people are really gullible. Despite the facts out there about Trump people just didn't care.  They cared about what they believed were Hillary's lies.  But not Trump's.    

What's worse than a gullible electorate is the vast number of Americans who are simply uninformed or ignorant of the news.  Not talking tweets here but news you get from MSM.  They know even less of what's going on in the world at large.

Donnamarie - This has been a problem for a long time. We have a culture that values having fun more than almost anything else. Kids who want to put time and effort into their education are ridiculed and bullied - and not just by their peers. Take a look at the "family" shows on tv and see how so many of them present the "smart" kid as a doofus or a nerd.

We don't encourage the pursuit of knowledge in our country except as a means to make money. It's no wonder so many in our electorate are ignorant of anything beyond their small circle and gullible enough to believe almost anything. They don't know enough to know when they're being lied to.

party animal - not! wrote:Well, it's all academic in a way becos, as His Nibs would say, the truth of the matter is........that the USA is in debt to China by billions and billions anyway, so that at any point they could basically pull the plug if they so wish.



And that is why upsetting China in any way is not such a great idea.................

Ooops....upsetting or standing up to the Dragon.....do you take action now or hope for the best....

I imagine, but I don't know, that over the course of many years in business Trump has made a lot of money using Chinese manufacture.....So he too has clocked that you don't sell products in huge volume at a loss....and if you do....why?.... 

China manipulates everything....their currency...companies...everything....Are we politically so cock sure of our own superiority to be blindsided by an economic "invasion".....Do we wait until we say "I didn't see that coming".....

It's like Greexit all over again....I remember telling ppl the real problem/elephant in the room was the refugees.....but NO everyone was focused on Greek economy......

BTW.....Do I sense another elephant in the room closer to home here at George Clooney open house....Mmm, worthy of being on the serious side thread.....get my drift....

I see the ELEPHANT in the room.

And where is it
Exactly?

it's me wrote:And where is it
Exactly?

                                                             

I crack myself up!!!

WWHS - ? Huh? I'm confuzzled!

ladybugcngc wrote:

it's me wrote:And where is it
Exactly?

                                                             

Sweet !!!

LizzyNY wrote:WWHS - ? Huh? I'm confuzzled!

Me too!

We are all waiting for WWHS to explain his version of the elephant in the room.  My version is I'm as big as an elephant and I'm in love.

The Elephant in the room is my 'lil Bro(George)....MIA....no sign, no word....nothing.....

Last seen, back in 2016 leaping like a tigger and sprinting down the road....like a dazzling white feather....

But I too am an Elephant....and Elephant's never forget....

it's me wrote:

Are you laughing at "HIS version"....tututut....

WWHS - I know my brain isn't working too well today, but I'm still confused. George is the elephant in the room? Why? And why worthy of "the serious side'? I don't mean to be a pain, but this isn't making sense to me . (Not necessarily your fault. It is the day after New Year's Eve,

What Would He Say wrote:

it's me wrote:

Are you laughing at "HIS version"....tututut....

No
About the


"I'm as big as an elephant and I'm in love." 

What Would He Say wrote:The Elephant in the room is my 'lil Bro(George)....MIA....no sign, no word....nothing.....

Last seen, back in 2016 leaping like a tigger and sprinting down the road....like a dazzling white feather....

But I too am an Elephant....and Elephant's never forget....

Hmmmmm .......interesting

They never forget

What Would He Say wrote:The Elephant in the room is my 'lil Bro(George)....MIA....no sign, no word....nothing.....

Last seen, back in 2016 leaping like a tigger and sprinting down the road....like a dazzling white feather....

But I too am an Elephant....and Elephant's never forget....

His ability to disappear--stay out of the news--at this point does make me wonder how much of his prominence in the media in previous years was by his own choice. Alternatively, are people less interested now that he is an old, married man behind the camera?

Hmmmmmm


Maybe