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Post by Adriane on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 16:10

Thanks,Lizzy, for your explanation!

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Post by annemarie on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 16:41

What portfolio, and what cases are you talking about? Are you talking about Doughty street because I haven't seen
any cases like that mentioned there.

Again can you tell me exactly where I can find them and read them.

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Post by LizzyNY on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 17:29

Ladybug - You seem to be saying that most people in the world belong to religions that consider homosexuality and adultery to be offenses so they will do nothing in the defense of homosexuals or adulterers. So, basically it's o..k. for Brunei to stone and whip and amputate because none of these believers will speak up. If any of them are followers of Christ they should be ashamed. They understand nothing of what Christ stood for.
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Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 18:08

LizzyNY wrote:Ladybug - You seem to be saying that most people in the world belong to religions that consider homosexuality and adultery to be offenses so they will do nothing in the defense of homosexuals or adulterers. So, basically it's o..k. for Brunei to stone and whip and amputate because none of these believers will speak up. If any of them are followers of Christ they should be ashamed. They understand nothing of what Christ stood for.
Nope.  


1.  I better way to state my position: "Opponents who stand for freedom for all people, may not agree with the stoning in Bruneihowever, at the same time may not defend LGBTQ actions that are considered religious offenses.  




2. Amal's action to defend LGBTQ causes in court is 10 times more effective than wealthy people boycotting luxury hotels.


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Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 18:27

annemarie wrote:What portfolio, and what cases are you talking about? Are you talking about Doughty street because I haven't seen
any cases like that mentioned there.

Again can you tell me exactly where I can find them and read them.
Like Nadia Murad, Amal takes outside cases.  I'm going to give you the challenge PAN has given me over the years, Google it.
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Post by annemarie on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 18:49

Celebrity couple George and Amal Clooney said on Thursday they wanted to use their star power to push for justice globally for women, children, LGBT+ people, religious minorities and journalists.

This is the only statement that mentions the LGBT. It doesn't mention her taking on cases simply that their foundation is going to monitor court cases.

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Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 19:21

annemarie wrote:Celebrity couple George and Amal Clooney said on Thursday they wanted to use their star power to push for justice globally for women, children, LGBT+ people, religious minorities and journalists.

This is the only statement that mentions the LGBT. It doesn't mention her taking on cases simply that their foundation is going to monitor court cases.
It is my understanding Amal is activly involved in one or more cases, that involves human rights violations against LGBT individuals.  The foundation's effort to monitor is a much better effort than the "wealthy people boycott luxury hotels" narrative/initiative.
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Post by LizzyNY on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 21:31

Ladybug - floggingadeadhorse You made your point - over and over. Only court cases (which apparently must be brought by Amal Clooney) are the solution. We got it. We just don't agree.

It's my belief, and I think that of others, that things like boycotts bring attention to issues which can then lead to changes - in people's ideas or through legal means. But, if nobody raises the issue, it won't be dealt with at all and nothing will change.

By the way, those people who won't defend the actions of LGBTQ people - will they defend the actual LGBTQ people from harm?
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Post by party animal - not! on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 21:56

https://www.bisnow.com/london/news/hotel/property-firms-pull-business-from-dorchester-hotel-after-clooney-led-protest-against-owners-anti-gay-law-98326

Bear in mind that people the Sultan also thinks are committing adultery will be stoned too.


And he's the Justice Minister and head of the country's Judiciary. So there is no such thing as a law court for anybody to defend any of these poor people. And certainly not a very well known international human rights lawyer!!

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Post by annemarie on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 22:27

Property Firms Pull Business From Dorchester Hotel After Clooney-Led Protest Against Owner's Anti-Gay Law LondonHotel 3 April 2019 Mike Phillips, Bisnow London Want to get a jump-start on upcoming deals? Meet the major London players at one of our upcoming events! Wikimedia Commons The Dorchester A real estate events company has pulled its business from the Dorchester in London, as part of a growing protest over new laws allowing gay people to be stoned to death that were passed by the royal family that owns the hotel. Movers & Shakers said in an open letter that it had decided to move an event that was due to be hosted at the five-star hotel on 26 April to an alternative location in Central London, and was suspending hosting any future events at the hotel, a venue it has used for several years. The hotel is part of the Dorchester Collection of nine hotels around the world that are owned by the Brunei Investment Authority, which is controlled by the Sultan of Brunei and his family. This week Brunei introduced new Sharia laws which include death, potentially by stoning, for those found engaging in same-sex intercourse. Actor George Clooney wrote an article for website Deadline highlighting the new laws and calling for a boycott of Dorchester Collection hotels, which also include 45 Park Lane in London and the Beverly Hills Hotel and Hotel Bel-Air in Los Angeles. Other celebrities including Ellen DeGeneres, Elton John and Richard Branson have publicly said they will boycott the properties. A boycott by businesses as well as individuals could have a real impact on the chain: Conferences are a major source of revenue for high-end hotels. Outside of real estate, the British Fellowship of Hairdressers said it was pulling its annual awards from the Dorchester. In the firm’s open letter, Movers & Shakers Managing Director Leigh Salter wrote: “We consider these new laws unacceptable by any measure and they are diametrically opposed to our own position as an organisation and membership group that puts diversity and inclusion at the heart of everything we do.

Read more at: https://www.bisnow.com/london/news/hotel/property-firms-pull-business-from-dorchester-hotel-after-clooney-led-protest-against-owners-anti-gay-law-98326?utm_source=CopyShare&utm_medium=Browser

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Post by annemarie on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 22:31

So basically there is no way any of the people charged will get a fair trial. That is horrible it also means that anyone can accuse someone else of homosexuality or adultery and with no court they will be killed.
There is no way Amal could help them even if she was hired by some one there.

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Post by party animal - not! on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 22:49

Exactly. They won't get a trial at all - fair or not! Such a system does not exist. The Sultan's decision is final.

Of course there are pluses to living in Brunei. No one pays any income tax at all and petrol and the health service are free! Anyone fancy it?

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Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 22:50

LizzyNY wrote:Ladybug - floggingadeadhorse You made your point - over and over. Only court cases (which apparently must be brought by Amal Clooney) are the solution. We got it. We just don't agree.

It's my belief, and I think that of others, that things like boycotts bring attention to issues which can then lead to changes - in people's ideas or through legal means. But, if nobody raises the issue, it won't be dealt with at all and nothing will change.

By the way, those people who won't defend the actions of LGBTQ people - will they defend the actual LGBTQ people from harm?
Lizzy,  

LGBTQ people have the same protection under the law that everyone has.  This is thread is about Brunei, a Sovreign nation that has ruled stoning homosexuals and adulterers is appropriate.  

According to PAN, Brunei:

"It's a sovereign state with its own laws - so nobody can intervene - unless of course a request comes from the judiciary which is highly unlikely because they're the ones making the laws......"

I believe challenging the actions in international court or through the United Nations would be the best answer.  I don't believe humans have the god given right to impose violence to execute judgement solely because someone is a homosexual or a adulterer.  As a Bible Believer, I beleive God-Jesus alone will judge those Biblical or religious offenses.  

I believe a case has to be made in International court, that no person has the god given right to impose violence, on the grounds they are the righteous with the moral call to impose god's judgment.

The boycott press coverage drives a narrative that fuels a very dangerous belief/agenda.  I understand we don't agree on the boycott, I was more than willing to stop, the back -and- forth, three blog pages ago.  However the "wealthy people boycott luxury hotels" narrative continue,  therefore I continue  floggingadeadhorse :

the "wealthy people boycott luxury hotel" narrative FUELS AN EXTREMELY EVIL MINDSET WITH A VERY  DANGEROUS AGENDA challenge continues...
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Post by party animal - not! on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 23:27

The United Nations have already condemned the Sultan of Brunei and they could challenge it all they like but it won't be respected. The country is so self-sufficient in everything and nothing a Christian or multi-religious community can do will make any difference. It is the way a Muslim dictator has decided to interpret Muslim Sharia law.



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Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 23:33

party animal - not! wrote:The United Nations have already condemned the Sultan of Brunei and they could challenge it all they like but it won't be respected. The country is so self-sufficient in everything and nothing a Christian or multi-religious community can do. It is the way a Muslim dictator has decided to interpret muslim Sharia law.
Interesting... 

So PAN,

are you saying,  if a LAW is be made in International court, that no person has the god given right to impose violence, on the grounds/belief they are the righteous or have a moral call to impose god's judgment...

Brunei would not have to abide by that international law?
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Post by party animal - not! on Thu 04 Apr 2019, 23:46

If he doesn't recognise the international court or the country's justice department doesn't, no - in this country's case the justice department only has a consultative role.

But all this is in the video I posted, Ladybug, so why don't you check it out?

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Post by annemarie on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 00:18

[size=44]The world is condemning Brunei’s gay stoning law, but America is just vaguely ‘concerned’[/size]




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By Alex Bollinger ·
 Monday, April 1, 2019
George Clooney calls for boycott of Brunei-owned hotels - Page 3 Hassanal-bolkiah-500x399
[size]
Sultan Hassanal BolkiahPresidential photo/Wikimedia Commons
The United Nations has condemned Brunei’s law that could punish homosexuality with stoning, but the U.S. has refused to condemn the law.
A law that would increase the punishment of several crimes in Brunei that passed in 2013 is going to be implemented this week. Included in the penal reform bill is the possibility of death by stoning for people found to have violated the country’s anti-sodomy laws.
The United Nations has condemned the law, saying that human rights experts have “expressed their concerns about the cruel, inhuman and degrading punishments contained in the penal code order.”
“I appeal to the government to stop the entry into force of this draconian new penal code, which would mark a serious setback for human rights protections for the people of Brunei if implemented,” wrote Michelle Bachelet, the UN high commissioner for human rights, in a statement.
Related: George Clooney is declaring war on the Sultan of Brunei over new law that would stone gays to death
The United States, though, was more restrained.
After being asked for comment several times by The Daily Beast, the State Department issued a statement saying that the U.S. is “concerned” with the law and that the punishments “appear inconsistent” with human rights law.
“The United States is concerned with Brunei’s decision to implement Phases Two and Three of the Sharia Penal Code. Some of the punishments in the law appear inconsistent with international human rights obligations, including with respect to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment,” the statement said.
When pressed on whether the State Department is concerned about stoning as a punishment for homosexuality or if the concern is for another aspect of the law, a spokesperson responded by supporting the “universal human rights” of “all people, including LGBTI people” in general, without referring to Brunei.
“Governments have an obligation to ensure that all people, including LGBTI people, can freely enjoy the universal human rights and fundamental freedoms to which they are entitled. We strongly oppose human rights violations and abuses against LGBTI persons, including violence, the criminalization of LGBTI status or conduct, and serious forms of discrimination,” the spokesperson said.
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has a history of anti-LGBTQ statements.
The office of Brunei’s Sultan and Prime Minister Hassanal Bolkiah issued a statement to respond to international criticism, saying that Brunei is an “independent” country.
“Brunei Darussalam is a sovereign Islamic and fully independent country and, like all other independent countries, enforces its own rule of laws,” the statement said.
“The Syariah Law, apart from criminalizing and deterring acts that are against the teachings of Islam, it also aims to educate, respect and protect the legitimate rights of all individuals, society or nationality of any faiths and race.”
The Australian government website is now advising LGBTQ travelers to pretend to be straight if they’re flying to or through Brunei.
A gay couple that had previously booked a flight from Australia to the UK on Royal Brunei Airlines with a four-hour stopover in Brunei said that they contacted the website through which they booked the flights.
They were told that they could not get a refund on their tickets, which cost $2200 Australian (almost $1600 US).
The couple told news.com.au that they then reached out to Smart Traveller, which is run by the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
A representative said, according to one of the gay men, “If you act heterosexual you should be fine.”
[/size]

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Post by annemarie on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 00:29

Of course the U.S won't denounce the acts they are  interested in the oil human life doesn't matter

If you act heterosexual you should be fine, really.

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Post by ladybugcngc on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 01:38

party animal - not! wrote:If he doesn't recognise the international court or the country's justice department doesn't - in this country's case the justice department only has a consultative role.

But all this is in the video I posted, Ladybug, so why don't you check it out?
I clearly understand the mindset of the Brunei King and others who believe they are the righteous called to avenge what they perceive to be unrighteous.

What astounds me are the people on this thread who believe the narritive:

 "wealthy people boycotting luxury hotels" because they don't agree the King should stone homosexuals and aduterers

 is something that can or will change the actions carried out by the Brunei King or any person who operates with this mindset.  

In others words YOU UNDERSTAND this King does not recognize the INTERNATONAL COURT.  However you do believe this King will be moved by wealthy people who disagree with his actions and choose to boycott his hotels.  And you are persistant in driving the narrative this boycott can make a difference; understanding the mindset that drives the Brunei King.

What I understand to be TRUTH is the continued "boycott NARRATIVE" will fuel the mindset of evildoers who believe they have the god given right to avenge these offenses and/or any offense they view as unrighteous on a GLOBAL scale.  The ultimate goal is to throw financial markets in flux, in an attempt to gain control of Global wealth.   

I have this to share:  any reported favorable changes as a result of the boycott narrative will energize a global incentive to avenge. And no changes will continue to fuel those who believe they have the god given right to impose violence to execute judgment. 

I believe there has to be a LAW(s) drafted by an International Court that makes it clear no human has the god given right to impose violence based on what they perceive to be ungodly, unrighteous, or unjust.  It may not stop the acts of ISIS and other evildoers who believe they are the righeteous sent by god to avenge what they perceive to be wicked, however it will make it clear their actions are in violation of LAWS across the globe.

Side note:  I've believed for some time, Australia would be the jump off point to throw financial markets in flux.  Given the recent tragedy in New Zealand, by an Austrailian, gives cause for ISIS and others to carry out a murderous rampage to avenge that offense.  I'm not going to be suprised if Austrialia comes under a major terroist attack.
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Post by party animal - not! on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 02:24

Very fortunately, Australia is part of the Five Eyes Group which, post WW11, has led the world in intelligence gathering and protection,

Financial markets are in continual flux all the time - currently not helped by the Boeing/FAA crisis.

Given that no fewer that 1300 people died in the US in 2018 from gun violence alone I'm hoping something constructive might be done about that




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Post by ladybugcngc on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 03:21

party animal - not! wrote:Very fortunately, Australia is part of the Five Eyes Group which, post WW11, has led the world in intelligence gathering and protection,

Financial markets are in continual flux all the time - currently not helped by the Boeing/FAA crisis.

Given that no fewer that 1300 people died in the US in 2018 from gun violence alone I'm hoping something constructive might be done about that



PAN my comments about Australia was a side note,.., just me thinking out loud.
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Post by annemarie on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 03:35

Ladybug, why do you think countries have to obey the law. In a civilized world people know right from wrong they choose to do wrong laws don't change this. Especially in places like Brunei they make their own laws and apparently don't have to obey any laws made by any court. Which is what the article I posted stated the same thing Pan said.

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Post by ladybugcngc on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 06:48

annemarie wrote:Ladybug, why do you think countries have to obey the law. In a civilized world people know right from wrong they choose to do wrong laws don't change this. Especially in places like Brunei they make their own laws and apparently don't have to obey any laws made by any court. Which is what the article I posted stated the same thing Pan said.
Currently there a christians, muslims, and others who believe they have been called by god to avenge what they perceive to be unrighteous, unholy, unjust.  My position is this Ideology has to be challenged.  I believe the best way to do that is by presenting challenges against the ideology before an international court of law.    

I believe there has to be a LAW(s) drafted by an International Court that makes it clear no human has the god given right to impose violence based on what they perceive to be ungodly, unrighteous, or unjust. 

 It may not stop the acts of Muslims, Christians, and other religious groups who believe they are the righeteous sent by god to avenge what they perceive to be wicked, 


or 


China, Russia and others  who believe they can steal, kill, and destroy whomever/whatever they please with reckless abandan and not give an account for their actions to any person or governing body.


however it will make it clear they are accountalbe to written law that applies across the globe.   And hold them accountable to actions that are in violation/punishable according to that Law.
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Post by LizzyNY on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 13:18

Ladybug - Are you intentionally ignoring the point everyone is making? There IS international law against the punishments Brunei is proposing. It is being IGNORED by the Sultan of Brunei. HE DOESN'T CARE. (Nor, by the way, do the other countries living under Sharia law.)

What do you propose be done? Taking it to court is useless if the rulings are ignored. Should we bomb them back to the stone age? Invade and force them to convert? IMO, financial pressure is more effective than spending years in court making laws that won't be followed.
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Post by ladybugcngc on Fri 05 Apr 2019, 14:19

LizzyNY wrote:Ladybug - Are you intentionally ignoring the point everyone is making? There IS international law against the punishments Brunei is proposing. It is being IGNORED by the Sultan of Brunei. HE DOESN'T CARE. (Nor, by the way, do the other countries living under Sharia law.)

What do you propose be done? Taking it to court is useless if the rulings are ignored. Should we bomb them back to the stone age? Invade and force them to convert? IMO, financial pressure is more effective than spending years in court making laws that won't be followed.
I'm sorry Lizzy, yes I missed the post that states there is international law against the punishments Brunei is proposing.

And yes I understand the sentiment on this thread is wealthy people who boycott luxury hotels is a start that can/may make or lead to a difference.  To some degree I do agree.  I believe it will be a financial win for luxury hotels that will inherit the business of the wealthy who change hotels.
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Post by party animal - not! on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 02:17



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/05/brunei-dorchester-hotel-london-companies-cancel-events-gay-sex-law

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Post by annemarie on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 03:50

Companies abandon Brunei's Dorchester hotel over gay sex law
Businesses including Financial Times cancel events at London landmark as backlash grows


Jim Waterson Media editor
Fri 5 Apr 2019 13.18 EDTLast modified on Fri 5 Apr 2019 18.55 EDT


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George Clooney calls for boycott of Brunei-owned hotels - Page 3 5544
 The English National Ballet is among those reviewing their associations with the Dorchester. Photograph: Chris J Ratcliffe/Getty Images
High-profile events and awards shows have been cancelled at the Dorchester in London in protest at the decision of Brunei, the hotel’s ultimate owner, to make gay sex and adultery punishable by stoning to death.
The boycott against businesses owned by the Brunei state has continued to grow in recent days, following an outcry from LGBT campaigners including Sir Elton John over the introduction of the new rules, ordered by the sultan of Brunei, Hassanal Bolkiah.
With other celebrities including the actor George Clooney giving their support to the boycott campaign, a string of companies confirmed on Friday that they would no longer be using the five-star hotel’s facilities. The TV Choice awards, several major property companies and the Financial Times were among those that said they would be cancelling events.

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The English National Ballet, Make-A-Wish Foundation and Tempus Magazine said they would be reviewing their associations with the Dorchester.

Major companies, such as Deutsche Bank, are banning their staff from staying in Brunei-owned hotels.
“The new laws introduced by Bruneibreach the most basic human rights, and we believe it is our duty as a firm to take action against them,” the Deutsche Bank chief risk officer, Stuart Lewis, said in a statement.
The developments followed theintroduction on Wednesday in the tiny Muslim-majority country of laws under which individuals found to have had gay sex could be stoned to death or whipped. The rules also mean thieves could face amputation of a right hand on their first offence and a left foot on their second.
Clooney said: “Every single time we stay at, or take meetings at, or dine at any of these nine hotels, we are putting money directly into the pockets of men who choose to stone and whip to death their own citizens for being gay or accused of adultery.”
Most of the hotels in the Brunei-owned chain have deleted their social media accounts following a barrage of protest. The Dorchester Collection group has a notice on its website saying: “Inclusion, diversity and equality are the foundation of Dorchester Collection … We understand people’s anger and frustration but this is a political and religious issue that we don’t believe should be played out in our hotels.”
It adds: “Our values are far removed from the politics of ownership.”
The Dorchester has not always had the purest reputation. It was the venue for the Presidents Club event, attended by leading businessmen and politicians, which closed down last year after members of the all-male guest list subjected some of the 130 women working at it to sustained sexual harassment.

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The decision to introduce the rules on anal sex and adultery was made by Bolkiah, one of the world’s richest men, who rules over a tiny country of 430,000 people on the island of Borneo. The absolute monarch – who also holds the titles of prime minister, defence minister, finance minister and foreign minister – first proposed the laws in 2013, only to be met with a wave of protest.
Homosexuality has always been illegal in Brunei, but the sultan, who was educated at Sandhurst military academy in the UK, has pushed ahead with the plan in an attempt to increase the influence of Islam in the country.
The University of Aberdeen and King’s College London have already confirmed they are reviewing the honorary degrees they have given to the sultan, while 40,000 people have signed a petition calling on the University of Oxford, which gave him an honorary diploma in 1993, to follow suit.
The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has agreed to pull adverts promoting Brunei as a tourist destination from the city’s transport network, following an intervention from the London assembly member Tom Copley.
Brunei gained full independence from Britain in 1984, but the Sultan still pays for about 2,000 British troops to be based in the country under a rolling five-year agreement due to expire next year.
This has caused concern among LGBT soldiers in the British army, who fear they could be caught up in the legal regime if they are serving in the country. The defence secretary, Gavin Williamson, told the Times he was seeking reassurances at the “highest levels” that UK troops would not be affected.

The sultan’s family has not always lived up to the standards he expects of his subjects. The monarch was previously embroiled in a scandal involving his brother, Prince Jefri Bolkiah, who was accused of misappropriating billions of pounds from the state during his tenure as finance minister in the 1990s. He was revealed to own 600 properties, 2,000 cars, a private Boeing 747 and several works by Renoir, Manet and Degas.
Jefri’s flamboyant lifestyle, which came to light in a series of court cases, involved a harem of foreign mistresses, the purchase of erotic sculptures of himself with his fiancee, and a luxury yacht he called Tits.

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Post by carolhathaway on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 08:24

At least some of those who can afford to stay or pay for others' stay at one of those hotels, start thinking about it or don't to it anymore. If that's the effect George's call has, it's very useful IMHO.
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Post by it's me on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 11:56

He tried
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Post by party animal - not! on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 15:15

The coverage continues and more join in the boycott. He's doing well

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brunei-anti-lgbt-gay-lashes-stoning-sharia-law-sultan-clooney-a8855836.html


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Post by annemarie on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 16:01

[size=54][size=54]Oxford University is stuck in the dark ages over Brunei – thankfully George Clooney is showing how it’s done[/size][/size]


The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was set up on 10 December 1948. Now I won’t be quoting 
the entire thing, it’s been a long time since my grade C essay at university. But what I will say is that it set out a number of freedoms and rights that every person on this planet deserves and which are needed to maintain what is perceived as a civil society.
Throughout the years, the UK and other nations have picked and chosen when they deemed it appropriate to invoke the protection of human rights as a legitimate reason to interfere in another nation’s affairs. Often the underlying drive has been money rather than overall welfare for individuals.

Sometimes simple economic sanctions suffice when dealing with a country that is breaking with the declaration. But how can you employ this strategy when the country you are dealing with has a ruler that is estimated to have a personal fortune of $20bn (£15.3m)?


This week George Clooney, Ellen DeGeneres and Elton John have come out to encourage a boycott of hotels across the world which are funded by the sultan of Brunei’s investment agency. These include the Dorchester collection, an operator of some of the world’s top hotels like the Dorchester in London and the Beverly Hills Hotel in Los Angeles.

The reason? A law has just been passed by the sultan that allows for male same-sex couples to be stoned and whipped to death if they are found together. Included in the same penal code is the crime of adultery – aimed at women – and for thieves to have their hands chopped off.

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Homosexuality was already deemed illegal and was punishable by 10 years in prison. Now the sultan has called for a more brutal version of Islamic law. The new code became law on Wednesday this week. For gay women the punishment is 40 lashes of the cane or 10 years in prison.

So what is the boycotting of hotels which are meant for the top, top, top echelon of society going to actually do? Do those people even care? I mean, it may be that a cream tea and a comfy pillow outweighs the lashing to death of a gay man in Brunei. Any discomfort will easily be removed by a well-timed, overpriced massage. There is more to it though.
If you want to hit a man hard, shame won’t work, but money might talk. Essentially, as Clooney said, hit them in their wallet. These hotels are not just about their guests, but every night run events in their function rooms and ballrooms. They are deeply sensitive to damage to their reputations.

Nowadays businesses are more and more aware of how important it is to move decisively away from any association that might damage their brand. I doubt in the future I will be attending another fashion or music party at the Dorchester after just one tweet from Monsieur Clooney.

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The University of Aberdeen is looking into removing the honorary degree awarded to the sultan, as is King’s College London. But this drip, drip effect won’t stop the sultan from looking to impose the harshest interpretation of Islamic law. The influx of money coming from the Muslim world means he will continue to look strong in the face of the criticism.

Will these laws be implemented? Many people in Brunei say it is very unlikely. But the more public shaming that can be done of institutions linked to Brunei, the better. Sadiq Kahn has already removed an advert for Brunei from the TfL network. These things can work and perhaps can at least allay the actual implementation of such heinous laws.

My final thought, however, is for an old bastion of education, Oxford University. It too has strong links to the sultan, however, it couldn’t even stretch to a cursory “we will review the honorary degree awarded to the sultan”.

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Instead, it gave an outright affirmation that it will uphold it. It shows how backward a university like Oxford is, and how far it will go to protect its precious coffers.

If we want to hit people’s wallets, perhaps we should be looking at how we can strain the finances of these sheltered mandarins at Oxford who refuse to listen to their students. Be more George Clooney, call them out and take a stand, however you can. I mean... it’s better than shouting about Brexit.

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Post by Donnamarie on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 16:11

Yes he is PAN. ‘Be more George Clooney, call them out and take a stand’. I like that!
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Post by annemarie on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 16:22

Definitely , better than simply doing nothing.

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Post by it's me on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 16:48

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Post by party animal - not! on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 19:15

Protests outside the Dorchester this afternoon

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2019/apr/06/shame-on-you-protests-at-dorchester-hotel-in-london-over-brunei-anti-lgbt-laws-video

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Post by party animal - not! on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 19:59

Oxford University review Sultans honorary degree


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/oxford-university-reviews-sultan-of-brunei-honorary-degree-over-death-by-stoning-law-for-gay-sex-a4111071.html

Just a well since Amal is an alumni!

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Post by annemarie on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 20:16

[size=48][size=48]Oxford University reviews Sultan of Brunei honorary degree over death by stoning law for gay sex

[/size][/size]

  • ELLA WILLS 

  • 6 hours ago 




Click to follow 
The Evening Standard

George Clooney calls for boycott of Brunei-owned hotels - Page 3 Brunei0304d
Brunei's Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah ( AFP/Getty Images )









The University of Oxford will reconsider its decision to award an honorary degree to the Sultan of Brunei after his country made gay sex punishable by stoning to the death. 
Strict new Islamic laws came into force in the small south-east Asian nation earlier this week, which also advocate punishment for theft by amputation.

The move has prompted a backlash around the globe. 
In a statement on Saturday, the university said it shared the "international revulsion" of the laws and that the decision to confer the honorary degree of civil law by diploma to Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah in 1993 would be reconsidered through its "established process".

But it stressed no one had the right "summarily to rescind it" and added: "We also believe in due process. Just as nobody has a right to confer an honorary degree, nobody has a right summarily to rescind it.

George Clooney calls for boycott of Brunei-owned hotels - Page 3 Sidharth-bhatia-128319-unsplash
The University of Oxford (Sidharth Bhatia/Unsplash)

"The decision to confer this degree 26 years ago was recommended by a committee and approved by council and by congregation at the time.
"We will reconsider this decision through our established process in light of the information now available, as other British universities are doing."

Students at Oxford had called on the university to strip the Sultan of his 1993 honorary degree. 
George Clooney calls for boycott of Brunei-owned hotels - Page 3 Georgeclooney2903





Clooney calls for Brunei luxury hotel boycott over LGBT death penalty

A petition to rescind his honorary degree has gained more than 56,000 signatures. 
Brunei introduced the laws after years of delays, ignoring global criticism from politicians, human rights groups and celebrities including actor George Clooney.
Homosexuality was already illegal in Brunei by a jail term up to 10 years, but under the new laws - which apply to children and foreigners, even if they are not Muslim - those found guilty of gay sex could be stoned to death or whipped.
Adulterers risk death by stoning too, while thieves face amputation of a right hand on their first offence and a left foot on their second

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Post by Donnamarie on Sat 06 Apr 2019, 20:21

The petition w/ more than 56,000 signatures to rescind the Sultan’s honorary degree is impressive.
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Post by Joanna on Fri 12 Apr 2019, 23:44

I can't believe that Brunei is still
a member of the Commonwealth.

I hope our Queen can be given the powers needed
to expel.
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Post by carolhathaway on Sun 05 May 2019, 21:14

https://news.sky.com/story/brunei-says-it-wont-enforce-death-penalty-for-gay-sex-after-backlash-11712490

Brunei says it won't enforce death penalty for gay sex after backlash

Following international outcry from celebrities and human rights groups, the sultan has released a rare statement in English.

Sunday 5 May 2019 18:06, UK

The Sultan of Brunei has said that his country won't enforce the death penalty for people found to have had gay sex, following widespread outcry.

Earlier this year, the new legislation in the tiny, oil-rich monarchy sparked international condemnation, including from celebrities such as George Clooney and Elton John.

They called for a boycott on hotels owned by the country's leader, including of the luxurious Dorchester in London and the Beverly Hills Hotel in LA.

On Sunday, the sultan Hassanal Bolkiah said he would be extending a moratorium on the laws punishing sodomy, adultery and rape with death.

Although Brunei had already allowed the death penalty to be given for certain crimes, including premeditated murder and drugs trafficking, there have been no executions since the 1990s.

According to Reuters, the sultan gave a rare response to the criticism of the new law on Sunday ahead of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

He said: "I am aware that there are many questions and misperceptions with regards to the implementation of the new law.

"However, we believe that once these have been cleared, the merit of the law will be evident.

"As evident for more than two decades, we have practiced a de facto moratorium on the execution of death penalty for cases under the common law.

"This will also be applied to cases under the new law which provides a wider scope for remission."

The unusual step of responding to criticism from the sultan was made even more unusual when the sultan's office released an official English translation of his speech, which is not common practice.

At the time, the human rights group Amnesty International condemned the punishments, which it said would also apply to children, as "vicious"

Human Rights Watch said Brunei's new penal code was "barbaric to the core" and called for the immediate suspension of "amputations, stoning, and all other rights-abusing provisions and punishments".
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Post by Doug Ross on Sun 05 May 2019, 23:46

That's an amazing news.


Wait... he didn't really say that he won't enforce it.

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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 06 May 2019, 00:20

No he didn't. He said that he'd continue 'the moratorium', i e extending the thinking about it.

But it is a victory, and I would guess international and diplomatic pressure has worked for the mo. After all this is a man who has audiences and official dinners with the Queen. No mention of the lashings for being gay, or adultery tho

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Post by Doug Ross on Mon 06 May 2019, 01:40

Thank you, Pan.

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Post by LizzyNY on Mon 06 May 2019, 13:53

Could it be that he's starting to worry about what will replace the oil industry that supports his economy? I read somewhere that Brunei's oil reserves won't last for too much longer. When they do run out it's going to make a huge change to their economy.
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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 06 May 2019, 14:20

Good question Lizzy!

Did a quick Google - take a look at this....

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2135748/why-china-coming-bruneis-aid-its-oil-slowly-runs-out

https://theaseanpost.com/article/brunei-looking-diversify

...So they want tourists!......

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Post by LizzyNY on Mon 06 May 2019, 15:12

Interesting. I wonder what, if anything, they'll do to attract tourists from the West or if they'll concentrate on China and the Middle East. The whole controversy about sharia law is very off-putting for a lot of non-Muslim people.
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Post by Donnamarie on Mon 06 May 2019, 16:38

It’s good to know that shining a light and public outcry did have some effect. But money talks. We will see how long the King continues to think about it.
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