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George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

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George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:14


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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by it's me on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 14:21

His own words 


Really?


I mean
I am in a rush
With still language barriers


In case of knowing more

Can someone tell me ?

Thanks lip smack
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 17:37

His thoughts and desires I think reflect how so many of us Americans feel right now.  Last week's comments by Trump are just another hit on our democracy.   I'm just a bit surprised about the context he put them in ... a prayer.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by annemarie on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 18:49

George being raised a catholic still has those things with him. Kneeling to pray is one  of the things you do and there is nothing disrespectful about it. Also , he has two children maybe he is now understanding his blessings. Maybe, he realizes that there was more to his happiness than luck.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 20:34

annemarie - No disrespect intended, but George has said for years that he doesn't believe in God (and recently said that Amal doesn't really believe in anything either). To use prayer to get his message across seemed  little hypocritical to me. If he doesn't believe in God, who is he praying to?
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by annemarie on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 21:04

He also said he wouldn't marry or ever have children things change. I simply think seeing those babies born may have changed him. I'm not saying he is going to mass every Sunday and spouting bible verses. Just that he may see things differently. Amal can believe or not believe.I don't see that being an issue for them. 
Just my thoughts on the issue we will never know how he feels now unless he says so .

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by What Would He Say on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 22:26

Sweeet sweet 7bl baby Jesus....YES!  I was in church first thing this morning.... I NEVER expected to bump into GTC there.... ever....

THIS CONFIRMS THAT GEORGE HAS BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS AND REPLACED BY DADDY KNUCKLEHEAD.... Release my George now!!!  I will pay any ransom but please take this imposter back to planet Zog.... 

People! George is out there somewhere.... all we have to do is find him and bring him home.....x
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by What Would He Say on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 22:38



Lord on high hear MY prayer...... bring him home.....
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 22:41

WWHS - lol! lol!   Happy hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol! lol!
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by it's me on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 23:00

What Would He Say wrote:Sweeet sweet 7bl baby Jesus....YES!  I was in church first thing this morning.... I NEVER expected to bump into GTC there.... ever....

THIS CONFIRMS THAT GEORGE HAS BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS AND REPLACED BY DADDY KNUCKLEHEAD.... Release my George now!!!  I will pay any ransom but please take this imposter back to planet Zog.... 

People! George is out there somewhere.... all we have to do is find him and bring him home.....x


MY home !  Razz
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by Donnamarie on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 00:04

Only George can say why he put his thoughts into a prayer.  I dont want to read too much into it. But I do think what has happened to our country in the last year and the accumulating actions by Trump seems to have put George in a place to be more public in articulating his political feelings.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by party animal - not! on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 02:47

Well, I think George is both utterly outraged and frustrated by the whole current situation, and for me this is like a prayer for our time - not per se religious as such, but touching on America's right for free speech and in this context, within the hallowed grounds of sport all around the country on one weekend...

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 13:25

PAN - It's rare that we disagree, but I think this is one of those times. I don't think George is outraged. I don't think anyone here is. Disgusted? Yes. Frustrated? Definitely. But outraged? Not really.

We've been dealing with racism and prejudice in this country since forever and progress is slow in coming. One step forward, two steps back. We can't afford to be outraged. It saps too much energy. We need to be determined and unyielding.

Also. to be just a tad disloyal, I think it's a bit opportunistic for him to take advantage of the protests and release his "prayer" while promoting a movie with a racism theme. Not that his intentions aren't good. Just saying.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by What Would He Say on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 13:53

Many people are outraged....but you pick your time and place as Lizzy said it looks a bit opportunist....NOT the old George at all....

Like Lizzy I'm staying loyal! 100% behind him....

I'm just not "proud" of this use of prayer and kneeling and the whole vibe....it makes me feel uncomfortable....I feel religious imagery is being used...As we know he does not believe in God or religion, so then, this is mockery.....

Earth to Clooney, Earth to Clooney....
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by Donnamarie on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 14:41

I think there is lots of outrage along with every other negative emotion you can come up with that many people are feeling in the current climate.  

The release of  'Suburbicon' next month has given George a very timely advantage in addressing our political climate.  He has given a bunch of interviews that have promoted his movie and its political themes.  His views are already out there.  I don't think this poem was meant to be opportunistic as much as just his expression of emotion along with many other celebrities who have visually or vocally displayed their feelings in response to Trump's NFL comments.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 15:31

Sorry, Donnamarie. Maybe his motives would be less suspect if he didn't have a movie about race coming out next month. As it is, no matter how sincere his motivation it has the appearance of opportunism.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by ladybugcngc on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 17:12

Because this conversation is about God/Prayer I have this to share: 

I think the making of this movie heightened George Clooney's awareness about the racial divide in this country.  The truth is there is no easy answer.  I am African American  and I understand the media wants us to believe the racial divide is bigger than it actually is.  If the Black lives matter campaign was truly about the killing of black people they would be talking about black on black crime.  Far more black youth particularly black males have been killed as a result of gang violence, than at the hands of police. 

 

In my opinion, because of making  the movie "Suburbicon", George is more conscious of how the influx of racial tension can change any given situation.  If George Clooney's prayer was to bring attention to his movie and/or the NFL players kneeling before the football game he would not be praying for the police and first responders.  Clearly his poem/prayer is an effort to bring all groups together . 

 

I am a die hard football fan.  If Kaeperneck had his socially conscious stand when he was starting as a quarterback, I would be more sympathetic to his cause.  He was benched because of his performance.  After he was benched, he decided to take up this racially charged social political issue.  To use the National Anthem/Flag  the one thing everyone in our country respects and can rally around to infuse this racially charged message is UNTHINKABLE.  I also think for the President of the United States to call NFL professionals sob's is UNTHINKABLE.  So this is where we as a Nation find ourselves.

 

I have not heard Kaepeneck, Black Lives Matter, or any group extend  solutions to this racially charged issue.   To see Hollywood's elite share with people across the Globe words to kneel/pray is something I don't think I've ever seen.  Those of us who believe in the power of prayer, understand prayer can bring about workable solutions.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 23:01

Ladybug, I don't think I could disagree with you more on every point of your post, except that the Present Occupant Taking Up Space is further dividing the country with his petty rhetoric.

But BLM was formed to work against police brutality in Black communities. That's what they do, and it's something that needs to be done. "Black on Black crime" is a buzzword dog whistle issue that detractors call forth as a smokescreen. Crime is a problem in every community and among all races. Whenever there is a mass shooting or school massacre, invariably committed by a young White male, I don't see anyone raising the specter of 'White on White crime.' Murder-suicide crimes in families are overwhelmingly committed by Whites, yet there's no discussion of the pathology in White communities.

Colin K started his protest just after one of the numerous murders of a Black man and the miscarriages of justices that came along with it. I think he felt compelled by anger and compassion, and it had nothing to do with his status on the team. He'd had it. Other NFL players have followed out of conscious -- starters and bench players. The protest is not against the flag or the anthem. It's to bring attention to the fact that we are not living up to what this country says it stands for.

(Side point... but not really, since you stated that "everyone" respects the anthem: There is no reason for saluting the flag or singing the national anthem at a sporting event. These are privately owned enterprises whose business is to provide entertainment by competing against each other. The show of nationalism is entirely out of place. We don't hear the anthem before TV shows, or at the start of a radio program, or when we walk into any place of business. Why before games? ...And have you ever heard the entire song?? Not something to be so proud and protective of.) 

I don't know where you live, but from where I sit, the racial divide is gaping, and getting wider by the day, thanks largely to racists who now think they have been given the run of the land. The media, especially since journalists were roughed up by police in the Ferguson protests, are now reporting racial injustices from the perspectives of the victims, rather than the institutions. They're not responsible for the severity of the problem, or what people think about it. They're now getting more facts out than they used to. What used to be "Man dies after fighting with/running from police" is now "White police officer kills unarmed Black man after stop for broken headlight."

I'm Black, and this is the way I understand it.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 00:27

Being on the other side of the racial divide I hesitate to insert myself into this conversation. Thing is, I think you both have valid points to make. The protests seem to me to have nothing to do with the anthem or the flag or patriotism. They are about bringing attention to the fact that for too many of our citizens the promise of the Constitution has not been kept.

As Ladybug says, the protest does not provide solutions to the problems - but they are bringing attention to the fact that the problems exist and are worse than many of us realised. We are making slow progress. Maybe the conversations being raised now will speed things up.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by media savvy on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 00:37

Exactly HOW and WHEN has George lived up to the message of #blacklivesmatter in the movies he stars in, writes produces or directs  He does the rhetoric, but not the action.  One of the reasons Suburbicon is getting such a bad reaction is because the black family at the centre of the story barely get screen time and their experiences are backgrounded.  Don't buy the bull.... that its a narrative technique. He is just backtracking when that oversight was raised by critics.  I notice he was quick to pose with the black actress (who has maybe three lines) in Toronto but she was nowhere to be seen beforehand in Venice and ALL the interviews have been with Julia and Matt.

Did you see an African-American actor in Hail Ceasar - yet Hollywood did have African-American actors working in that era.  Could have been done.

African- Americans fought in World War 2 - did you see any in the Monuments Men.  Could have been done.

Yet I have seen quote from him where he says he did not cast black actors in his historical films.  Because he chose not to. Because it does not matter to him.

In The Descendants George plays a man of Hawaiian descent.  Really?  He didn't have a problem with that?

In Up in the air - were there no African Americans employed  in the company he worked for.  Why couldn't the characters played by Jason Bateman, Anna Kendrick or his love interest have been played by a black interest?  Because he didn't WANT to do that.  

There is a token black man in Oceans movies - Dan Cheadle playing british and a token Asian playing, what else - a gymnast who doesn't speak English. Why not one of the leads?

Lots of white people in those Nespresso commercials.  Do only white people drink coffee? And poor black farmers in south america grow it.  

I'm not talking here about his charitable work.  Though some could argue he could contribute to education in USA as well as Lebanon.  There is a lot of grandstanding in his charitable work and Clooney Foundation as well.  This post is about his choices as an actor, writer, producer and director.

George you should be praying.   Praying for your loss of integrity and your cynical exploitation of something you are in a position to do something about but have chosen not to for almost three decades.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 01:17

Ladybug, I don't think I could disagree with you more on every point of your post, except that the Present Occupant Taking Up Space is further dividing the country with his petty rhetoric.


I extend my hand to agree to disagree.

But BLM was formed to work against police brutality in Black communities. That's what they do, and it's something that needs to be done. "Black on Black crime" is a buzzword dog whistle issue that detractors call forth as a smokescreen. Crime is a problem in every community and among all races. Whenever there is a mass shooting or school massacre, invariably committed by a young White male, I don't see anyone raising the specter of 'White on White crime.' Murder-suicide crimes in families are overwhelmingly committed by Whites, yet there's no discussion of the pathology in White communities.

 
Maybe you can tell me what BLM's resolution is to solving police brutality in Black communities.

 
Colin K started his protest just after one of the numerous murders of a Black man and the miscarriages of justices that came along with it. I think he felt compelled by anger and compassion, and it had nothing to do with his status on the team. He'd had it. Other NFL players have followed out of conscious -- starters and bench players. The protest is not against the flag or the anthem. It's to bring attention to the fact that we are not living up to what this country says it stands for.

 
As you stated police brutality is a long standing problem in Black communities, I find Colin K's timing particularly interesting.

 

(Side point... but not really, since you stated that "everyone" respects the anthem: There is no reason for saluting the flag or singing the national anthem at a sporting event. These are privately owned enterprises whose business is to provide entertainment by competing against each other. The show of nationalism is entirely out of place. We don't hear the anthem before TV shows, or at the start of a radio program, or when we walk into any place of business. Why before games? ...And have you ever heard the entire song?? Not something to be so proud and protective of.) 

 
Understanding our Nations history I find the lyrics something to be proud of.   I understand the War that was fought to establish this country's independence.   I understand the flag represents the War that was fought to abolish slavery.  I understand the Flag represent protest and the brutality waged against that protest that brought an end to 200 years institutional racism.  Yes as an African American the National Anthem and the Flag means a great deal to me.

 
I don't know where you live, but from where I sit, the racial divide is gaping, and getting wider by the day, thanks largely to racists who now think they have been given the run of the land. The media, especially since journalists were roughed up by police in the Ferguson protests, are now reporting racial injustices from the perspectives of the victims, rather than the institutions. They're not responsible for the severity of the problem, or what people think about it. They're now getting more facts out than they used to. What used to be "Man dies after fighting with/running from police" is now "White police officer kills unarmed Black man after stop for broken headlight."

 
I'm Black, and this is the way I understand it.

 
I grew up in Compton.  As a young child I could not understand why one group of Black people would shoot and kill another group of Black people simply because they lived on another block.  In my teenage years I worked with SCLC and NAACP were we talked with gang members our same age to understand their lifestyle, in a hope to develop solutions. 

In my adult years, I was on the phone talking to a friend who lived an area saturated with gang members, when I heard shots ring out and the chaos that ensued.  One of the young people she prays for was confronted with a gun at point blank range, ducked and was missed, the group she prays for was able to run with no harm to them.  I was with the same friend when she had me stop, so she could tell a young man walking down the street to be careful there was a high level of gang activity in the neighborhood .  Unfortunately within a week that young man was shot and killed.  I attended his funeral within 2 weeks of meeting him.  These are all true life accounts.  I understand these problems require complex resolutions that include, money, education, and the understanding life matters.


It is  the news media that fuels the dissension by reporting a" white police" officer shots an unarmed "black man".  Just the other day on the news a "white police officer" shot a white man and the news media did not make that distinction.  If it had been a "black police officer" I guarantee you the news media would have fueled that distinction.

My Position: protesters on all sides who do not lead with workable resolutions, keep fueling the dissension.   Protests without a clearly defined resolution is nothing but empty words.   The problem we face as a nation is with those who believe they are entitled to the wealth of the country at the expense of ALL ethnicities, age, and gender.

Bottom line the problem we face is a quest by the wealthy few to gain economic supremacy.

Those protesting for White supremacy have to understand Black people are not the problem.    The Black Lives Matter movement have to understand ALL life matter.  The ANTFA movement have to understand, educated people understand they are sent to bolster dissension between the two.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 01:41

The national anthem was directed to "freemen." "Hirelings and slaves" were specifically excluded from the tributes of "free and brave."

BLM has never claimed to have a "resolution." They bring attention to the problem, educate anyone willing to listen, and explore options in individual communities. Pretty much like marches and protests and bus rides and speeches and sit-ins during the Civil Rights Movement didn't carry anyone to a ready-made solution.

As you said, agree to disagree. I've said what I have to say.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 01:42

Media savvy - I won't get into whether or not George has walked the walk as much as he has talked the talk. That's a matter of opinion. You are mistaken about one thing, though. Motion pictures made before the 1950s/60s were basically segregated, as was most of the country. The African American characters in white movies until then were stereotyped and rarely seen as anything other than a servant/maid/chauffeur/field hand, etc. or a buffoon. There was, however, a robust African American film industry - segregated, of course - peopled with African American actors and shown in African American communities.

I don't know how old you are, but you should know that until post WWII much of America was segregated, and that included the armed forces, schools, housing - you name it. I know it's pc to favor inclusion, but you can't go back and change history. The ruling families in Hawaii at the turn of the century and thereafter were white plantation owners. The African American divisions in WWII didn't serve with the white units. That's just the way it was. You can't change it because you don't like it.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 03:06

A couple of observations from across the pond which are not supposed to be contentious in any way.

In any confrontation of any sort a plethora of guns so freely available and heavily promoted from government down to literally anybody whether black or white cannot possibly help anyone, can it?

As  somebody who has visited the States several times I was staggered by the hysterical and aggressive approach of the police (many of whom were black) when I watched a  small peaceful march of people of all colours taking place to protest the Baltimore and Cleveland killings. The atmosphere was combative to put it mildly.

Their quite literal manhandling of some was shocking to me  given that they were simply walking down a New York street. You could also see the fear of those who were watching as they headed home. I would guess quite a few dived into shops and probably bought things they had no intention of purchasing that evening. I know I did.

Lizzy - yep, maybe outraged was the wrong word, but George has seen the situation from many angles now and no doubt has had many Algoncuin dinners discussing it all with some of the finest of minds of this generation, including Barack Obama

When he was in the UK for six months I remember him saying he couldln't watch TV for over a month after Drumpf won and it's possible he got a slight different view of things from over here.  Now he's back in the US it's possible as events unfold that he feels the need to try and do something. And of course he's in the States because of work on Suburbicon.

I do wonder whether his 'poem' was a collaborative thing he might just have jotted down over dinner with like-minded folks.......

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You can't change history, but you can charge art

Post by media savvy on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 12:51

LizzyNY wrote:. That's just the way it was. You can't change it because you don't like it.

LizzyNY.  You're right you can't change history, but you can challenge and change perceptions  and stereotypes through creativity, through art, through film.  George is one of lucky few on the planet with the clout and financial backing who can make a film about something he is passionate about.  Look at what Angelina Joiie has achieved with First they killed my father.  

Every film George has had a hand in creating, you can see where he could challenge and push boundaries - but he doesn't . And I wouldn't care if it weren't for the hypocritical grandstanding that seems to have defined him in the last three years as he positions himself as this hollow statesman of cliches and rhetoric.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 14:10

Media Savvy - I totally agree with you about the arts being a vehicle for promoting change and influencing perceptions. I guess where we have to agree to disagree is that I don't blame George for all the ills of the film industry. He does have a lot of influence in the industry now, but it took him a long time to get to where he is. For many of those years he was just another actor working in a collaborative business. He wasn't the boss and his ideas didn't carry any more weight than anyone else's. If the powers that be didn't listen to him it wasn't his fault,

Now that he is creating his own product, could he do more to move things forward? Probably. Will he? I don't know. He seems to have found a  circle of colleagues and method of working that are comfortable for him. It's a situation we all wish we could find ourselves in. I don't know if he will choose more projects that are socially relevant. I don't know what, if anything, he's doing behind the scenes to bring about change. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by ladybugcngc on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 14:22

Hi Media Savvy,

I know very little about the movie making process, however I have learned who is selected for movie parts may not be in the hands of the director/producer.  That's what "Hail Cesar" was all about.  Studio executives have a lot input in the actors who are selected for particular parts, themes, and the movie making process.  

I learned a lot about George Clooney and his take of race from "Leatherheads".  In "Leatherheads" there was a Black Actor on the football team in the 1920's.  According to the script no character in the movie made a comment regarding his race, not one comment.   

It was not intentional, the part was for a football player, in truth his skin color should not have made a difference.  However historically a black football player in the 1920's would have been an issue.  I don't think he realized it until I made a note of it.  George Clooney directed that movie so that tells you a lot about his character.  After I viewed "Leatherheads" I understood George Clooney view people as people regardless of their race.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by annemarie on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 15:13

Ladybug, you are right it was discussed on here the studio still has final say on who is in the movie. If George wants that movie made he has to to agree to what they want.

Movie making is a business and all the heads of studios want is money. Certain actors are used because they supposedly bring people into the theaters.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by Donnamarie on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 18:01

George has said that he needs to do more, as does Hollywood, to include African Americans in films.  I'm not trying to make excuses for him.  I give him the benefit of the doubt.  He has his reasons but I don't think the reason why he hasn't done more is because he doesn't care.  If the right project came along that would work for him as a director I would think he'd do it.

George has been very vocal on the race issue but that doesn't make him a hypocrite for not including more blacks in his films.  It makes him socially conscious and concerned like most of us.  It is important that George has contributed to many charities for several years and just recently gave $1 million to the Southern Poverty Law Center to fight hate in our country.   The Clooney Foundation for Justice is  helping to give Syrian refugee children a chance at education.   He is a man of integrity in my eyes and I suspect he will keep calling out injustices when he sees them.

Really interesting discussion here regarding race, law enforcement and protest.  Lots of good points were made.  I will just add that I have a real concern with our Justice Department's approach to much stricter law and order policies that I feel is going to send the wrong message to police departments across the country.  Many of Obama's oversight policies are being undone by the Trump Administration in their attempt to create a law and order state.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 19:00

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he recently said that it all has to start with the studios and who, as the paymasters, they are prepared to hire.?


Moonlight was very successful (all the more remarkable given it was up against La La Land which was like an ode to Hollywood) as was The Help, and years earlier Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, In the Heat of the Night, and Porgy and Bess)

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by annemarie on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 19:50

Yes Pan that is what he said no matter who he might want to hire it is not his choice.

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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 23:01

Annemarie - I think it is less true than it used to be that the studio heads tell him what to do. He's in a position now where his opinions carry a good deal of weight when he's making a film, though not so much when he's only acting in one.

PAN - Those are all examples of really great films - and I can think of a few more - but sadly they are hugely outnumbered by films where the cast is predominantly one race (whether white or black) because they are geared to specific audiences. Not too different from the industry in the early 20th century, come to think of it.
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Re: George's prayer for the USA: Daily Beast

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