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The Serious Side - part 2

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Sun 21 May 2017, 17:24

It's disturbing full stop, Donnamarie!

He's arming them to the teeth.

On a lighter note here he is at a kindergarten..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th5uVIhQ8VY

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Sun 21 May 2017, 18:55

Oh, and Ted Lieu has helped out with a tweeted crib sheet for Trump on his trip

https://twitter.com/RepTedLieu/status/865568077240451074

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Sun 21 May 2017, 23:12

PAN the Ted Lieu cheat sheet is brilliant!

Not only is Trump giving the Saudis a bevy in arms deals but there are a slew of U.S. business leaders there right now for some economic forum who are entering into big investment partnerships with the Saudis. ExxonMobil (Tillerson former head) being one and Blackstone, a private equity giant doing some huge infrastructure deal with the Saudis. The Chairman and CEO of Blackstone is a close ally of Trump's and heads up the White House's economic advisory council. These business deals worth up to $200 billion over next 10 years.

I vaguely remember Trump criticizing the Clinton Foundation last year during the campaign for accepting money from the Saudis because they had such a terrible record on human rights issues. Guess that's all water under the bridge now?
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Mon 22 May 2017, 07:08

In the past it was always negative for the States to support a government in the Middle East with weapons and money, always came back as a boomerang.
How do they make sure that the Saudis don't use the weapons against US bases or against their own people? Or support other regimes by selling to them?
Was 9/11 such long time ago that it's forgotten? Most of the assassins were actually from Saudi Arabia.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Mon 22 May 2017, 12:40

This is Trump he does business with them, so 911 doesn't matter as long as he is making money.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 00:01

PAN just heard about a serious explosion at Manchester Arena. Fill us in when you can.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 23 May 2017, 00:36

Yep. Arianna Grande concert - lots of young girls and parents trying to reconnect with them so understandable panic. 20,000 people there.

Explosion thought to be outside the arena..........live reporting on BBC.

Large balloons from ceiling may have caused noise and panic stampeding. Main station closed, British Transport police say. May have been single explosion in foyer they say now. Total chaos

Counter terrorism police now on scene and Home Office meeting in London tonight

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 00:57

Thanks PAN. I'm hearing at least 20 people are dead. Lots of speculation here without much to go on at this point.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 23 May 2017, 01:16

Statement from Greater Manchester Police: 19 confirmed dead, 50 injured. Being treated as a terrorist incident.

Concert had ended, so potential for multiple casualties and at the exit towards the main railway station......

Police have carried out a controlled explosion of a second bomb between the arena and the cathedral. Children looking for their parents have been taken by police to a hotel. A 12 year old and his 10 year old sister among those looking for their parents


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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 01:36

That's what they are reporting here too. Suspecting a suicide bomber. This kind of venue is such an easy target for terrorist attacks. This one seems like the one that took place in Paris during a soccer game.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 23 May 2017, 01:40

Yes. I've just added a paragraph to the last info, Donnamarie.

Incident obviously timed to coincide with folks leaving and lack of security checks. Also talk of police arresting people in a nearby car.....


Remarkably, the Mailonline is a good source of info.......

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Tue 23 May 2017, 05:49

I just heard about the incident at the concert in Manchester. People, many of them Kids, who just wanted to enjoy music, are dead or injured now. So sad!
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 11:06

This is so   sad and awful .

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 23 May 2017, 13:02

Theresa May's moving statement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT671j39V4k

She's now on her way to Manchester

They believe they know the attacker (spotted by cctv I believe) and arrests have started.......

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 14:28

Even with the remarkable U.K. intelligence community at work they can't stop every despicable who wants to cause harm. It is particularly awful that this horror occurred at an event with all these young girls in attendance.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 17:36

My daughter just told me that the person Trump put in charge of education is going to give all student loans that students 
pay to one company. This means that they can take away payment plans, and it would be possible that students 
would be paying interest and not the loan it self. 


http://www.gq.com/story/betsy-devos-student-loan-protections-stripped

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 19:03

Annemarie this doesn't surprise me at all. The Trump proposed budget just got released and it literally screws over most people who make up the middle class or any group of people who struggle to make ends meet. His proposed budget has been called a scam. It's based on 3% growth in the economy which Democrats said is an absolute fantasy. The Republicans want to balance the budget in 10 years on the backs of the working class via this budget. This is so cliche but he and most of the Republicans want to give tax credits to big business and the wealthy and hope that their increased income will stimulate growth. Been there, done that, it doesn't work. He's proposing big cuts in Medicaid, the food stamp program and other safety net programs for the poor, cuts to student loans, and disability programs. Then add in the latest Republican proposed healthcare program. The budget is cruel and heartless. Even some Republicans said they won't support this budget.

It is beyond me how anyone who voted for Trump thinking he was going to look after their best interests can still support him. But they love this guy so much they think he will work miracles. With this budget he probably would make their situation much worse.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Tue 23 May 2017, 19:30

I would hope that these people will some day wake up and smell the coffee, he is not going to make any miracles he is only making things worse.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 24 May 2017, 12:18

Maybe now that he's trying to cut Medicaid and Social Security, and mess with their kids' college loans, they'll start to feel the effects of his policies and they'll begin to wake up. It's one thing to cheer him on when you think he's going to hurt someone else to help you. It's a new ballgame when you're the one getting hurt.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Wed 24 May 2017, 21:34

My daughter told me a story she read , a man's father who voted for trump found out his medical was going to be in danger because of Trump, he said his father wasn't happy but he still supported Trump.

And unfortunately it seems a lot of  republicans will never admit they made a mistake and he is horrible.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Thu 25 May 2017, 03:34

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4538004/Forget-impeachment-says-voters.html

[size=34]Forget impeachment - at least for now, says voters: Poll shows backing for special counsel on Russia but not for ultimate sanction[/size]

  • Two-thirds of voters, including a chunk of Republicans, agreed with the deputy attorney general's decision to appoint a special counsel to the Russia probe

  • A new Morning Consult/Politico shows that while the special counsel was met with approval, Americans aren't on board with impeachment 

  • Just 38 percent said they wanted Congress to start impeachment proceedings, a sentiment mainly expressed among Democrats  


By NIKKI SCHWAB, U.S. POLITICAL REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 12:56 EDT, 24 May 2017 | UPDATED: 17:33 EDT, 24 May 2017

    


About two-thirds of Americans, 63 percent, approved of the appointment of a special counsel to take over the Russia probe, a new poll shows, though only 38 percent have an appetite for impeaching President Trump.
Morning Consult and Politico dropped a new survey Wednesday morning in which pollsters asked registered voters about some of the issues that have recently plagued the Trump administration.
In broad terms, Trump's voters are sticking by the president's side, even coalescing around the Republican in the last week, while Democrats are much more inclined to call for his head. 
Scroll down for video   


+4




+4



A new poll shows President Trump's (left) approval rating has ticked up, while two-thirds of voters said they approved of the appointment of special counsel Robert Mueller (right) 


+4


Democrats overwhelmingly believe Congress should start impeachment proceedings, while Republicans say not so much 


+4


Voters don't have much of an appetite for impeachment, with 38 percent saying they'd like to see Congress start proceeding, a number mostly driven by Democratic support 
On the impeachment question, 68 percent of Democrats said they were for the House of Representatives starting impeachment proceedings, while just 12 percent of Republicans agreed. 
Among independents, 33 percent said they wanted Congress to kick off a way to kick out President Trump.  
The appointment of former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel was 'strongly' agreed upon by 39 percent of registered voters, with another 24 percent saying they 'somewhat' agree, for a total of 63 percent. 
Among Democrats 62 percent strongly agreed with the move made last week by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, while 18 percent of Democrats somewhat agreed. 
Just 4 percent of Democrats said they somewhat disagreed, with another 4 percent saying they strongly disagreed with the move. 
On the Republican side, the biggest cohort, 30 percent, said they 'somewhat' agreed with Rosenstein's decision. 
Another 20 percent said they strongly agreed, while 17 percent somewhat disagreed with the action, and another 18 percent strongly disagreed with Rosenstein's move. 
The poll showed that Trump 'stopped the rot,' as Morning Consult put it, in regard to his approval rating, with it now sitting at 45 percent.



A week before, Trump had an approval rating of 41 percent and a disapproval rating of 53 percent. 
Now, the disapproval rating sits at 50 percent. 
That seven-point swing is mainly thanks to Trump shoring up support among his own base. 
Eighty-eight percent of voters who chose Trump last November approve of his job performance, the new poll said. 
Forty-seven percent of those voters 'strongly approve' of Trump.  
The poll in mid-May showed 82 percent approval among Trump voters and 42 who strongly approved.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 25 May 2017, 11:18

That's what Trump left -  guess where?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/867059618169663489/photo/2

At Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial.

'If is a great honor to be here with all of  my friends - so amazing & will never forget.'

Seriously? At Yad Vashem? If you replaced 'honor' by 'pleaaure', it's something he might write at a restaurant's or hotel's guest book. Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Thu 25 May 2017, 16:09

Carol , he doesn't have a deep thought in his head.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Thu 25 May 2017, 16:12

http://people.com/crime/manchester-terror-bombing-british-lawmakers-rage-united-states-leaks/


[size=37]British Lawmakers Rage at the U.S. Over ‘Incomprehensible’ Leaks to Media on Manchester[/size]


POSTED ON MAY 25, 2017 AT 10:29AM EDT


[url=https://pinterest.com/pin/create/button/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.com%2Fcrime%2Fmanchester-terror-bombing-british-lawmakers-rage-united-states-leaks%2F&media=https%3A%2F%2Fpeopledotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F05%2F170525_theresa-may-leaks.jpg%3Fw%3D1024&description=British Lawmakers Rage at the U.S. Over %E2%80%98Incomprehensible%E2%80%99 Leaks to Media on%C2%A0Manchester][/url]
BRITAIN'S PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY LEAVES 10 DOWNING STREET IN CENTRAL LONDON ON MAY 25, 2017. BRITAIN'S PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY SAID THURSDAY SHE WOULD RAISE THE ISSUE OF LEAKS FROM A PROBE INTO THE MANCHESTER TERROR ATTACK THAT HAVE INFURIATED BRITISH AUTHORITIES WITH THEIR US COUNTERPARTS. SPEAKING AHEAD OF HER DEPARTURE FOR A NATO SUMMIT IN BRUSSELS, MAY SAID SHE WOULD "MAKE CLEAR TO PRESIDENT (DONALD) TRUMP THAT INTELLIGENCE WHICH IS SHARED BETWEEN OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES MUST REMAIN SECURE". / AFP PHOTO / DANIEL LEAL-OLIVAS (PHOTO CREDIT SHOULD READ DANIEL LEAL-OLIVAS/AFP/GETTY IMAGES)
series of leaks on the investigation into the Manchester bombing by U.S. officials to the media has severely undermined the intelligence-sharing relationship between Britain and the United States. But British lawmakers tell TIME the alliance has to remain strong as the fight against extremism continues.
At a NATO summit in Brussels on Thursday, British Prime Minister Theresa May will confront President Donald Trump over U.S. leaks in relation to the Manchester Arena bombing that killed 22 people, including children and teenagers, late on Tuesday night. “I will make clear to President Trump that intelligence shared between our security agencies must remain secure,” she told reporters.
British interior minister Amber Rudd had earlier objected to American officials when CBS revealed the name of the bomber, Salman Abedi. “I have been very clear with our friends that that should not happen again,” she told the BBC. But the New York Times subsequently reported a series of leaked images, including what appears to be a bloodstained detonator that was in the suicide bomber’s left hand.
The British Government and intelligence agencies believe these leaks could have undermined their investigation and even endangered lives. “That the Americans have done this is incomprehensible,” said Dominic Grieve, the Conservative Party lawmaker who chairs the powerful Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament. “I don’t think it endangers our security co-operation with the U.S., but it is very irritating.”
Grieve told TIME the leaks are “a flagrant breach” of the ‘control principle’ — the rule that intelligence passed by one authority to another cannot be published or shared without the originator’s agreement, on which international security co-operation is based.



Anger is such that police investigating the attack in Manchester have stopped sharing information with the U.S., a move that breaks the intelligence co-operation that has been so evident since 9/11. The Special Relationship has rarely looked so rocky.
But lawmakers in the U.K. recognise they need the U.S. in its counter-terrorism efforts more than ever, because national security relations with the E.U. are at risk as Britain prepares to leave the bloc. Former Justice Secretary and Labour peer Charlie Falconer says: “We’ll be looking to America [for help] as an ally, whatever people think of Trump, and have common cause with America.”
The U.S. and U.K. have had an extremely close intelligence sharing relationship under the “Five Eyes” alliance comprising the U.K., U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The five Anglophone countries share signals, military and human intelligence.
This global co-operation is particularly vital given so much terrorism is now plotted through the internet, which pays no heed to geographic borders and much of which is run by U.S. internet service providers [I.S.P.s]. Malcolm Rifkind, a former foreign secretary who was Grieve’s predecessor as chairman of the Intelligence and Security Committee, says: “Terrorists now function through the internet. One of the two men who murdered Lee Rigby [a fusilier who was killed while off-duty in London four years ago] got in touch with a known terrorist in Yemen through Facebook. They discussed murder but never physically met.”
The vast improvements in intelligence-gathering and security make highly planned operations like the July 7, 2005 bombings in London more difficult for extremist groups to carry out, he says. Instead, “they’re using indoctrinated individuals as dupes.”
Rifkind wants U.S.-based I.S.P.s and large social media companies to share information they gather on terrorism with U.K. authorities. There have been talks on improving this flow of information for some time, but progress has been slow. “[The companies] comply with U.S. law” says Rifkind. “But there’s no legal obligation for them to comply with U.K. law or share information with every other government in the world.”
Hazel Blears, a former cabinet member in the Labour Party who also sat on Rifkind’s committee, adds: “Social media companies as good corporate citizens have a responsibility to aid us [against terrorism].”



Blears also wants the U.S. to adopt a system similar to the U.K.s Prevent program. This is a counter-extremism strategy that has reportedly seen thousands of people, including children aged 10 and under, referred to anti-radicalization progams. Rudd said on Wednesday that Prevent has stopped 150 people from travelling to fight with extremist groups in Syria.
“America doesn’t really have a programme similar to Prevent,” says Blears. “We need to work on this more internationally. We need to co-ordinate this internationally and then fit the programme to a country’s own culture. We need to expose the idea of an [Islamic State] caliphate.”
This plan may not be welcomed by human rights groups and Muslim leaders, however, who believe Prevent has turned communities against each other as teachers are legally obliged to report students at risk of extremist activity, and doctors report patients.
David Richards, who was the head of the British armed forces in 2010-13, wants the U.S. to establish an international umbrella organisation dedicated to fighting militant jihadism. “The attack [in Manchester] does emphasise the need for a new compact,” says Richards. “An overarching international and integrated national strategy to deal with the causes and symptoms of militant jihadism. We need this compact, because we’ve yet to recognise the true depth of threat we face from militant jihadism.”
Indeed, Richards believes Trump was “feeling his way towards something like this” during his recent trip to the Middle East. In a speech to the Arab Islamic American summit in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia on Sunday, Trump said his “goal is a coalition of nations who share the aim of stamping out extremism”.
Keith Simpson, a military historian and a Conservative lawmaker, is dubious, believing Richards’ plan could become a “vast talking shop”. Five Eyes is working sufficiently well, he says. “That’s a very, very close relationship that has grown even closer over the last two or three years. At agency level, we’re already very close with the U.S. and Canada.”
British lawmakers, though, will hope that trust is not undermined again given they now need the U.S.’s help in the fight against terrorism more than ever.
This article originally appeared on Time.com

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Thu 25 May 2017, 16:19

The press need to learn when to keep silent. Who ever leaked this information should be fired.

Certain information should be kept quiet the world does not need to know every little detail.

Right after the world trade went down , the Daily News posted a list of bridges and subways that 
would be easy targets for terrorists.  

By all means lets give them a map to help them the press make me so angry at times.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Thu 25 May 2017, 18:49

I was reading an article about the leaks and it mentioned that back in 2005 after the London transit bombings pictures of bomb parts were leaked in the U.S. media. The Brits weren't happy about that either. The article also made the point that there is a big difference in the relationship between the press and the intelligence services in the U.S. and Britain. Britain intelligence is much more closed and doesn't share with the media. The NY Times is defending itself and I'm not sure I disagree with their decision to publish. It doesn't seem to me that what was revealed, especially the terrorist's name wasn't going to come out sooner than later anyway. But I can understand Britain's frustration with what happened.

It may be after what happened with Trump divulging classified info with the Russians two weeks ago that May wanted to drive home a point with Trump. Put him on notice.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 25 May 2017, 18:51

Yep, it hasn't gone down well here, and that's tragic because the Five Eyes is a long standing and brilliant intelligence network between the countries and has been operating in such vital work since World War 11.

Actually I don't think it's the Press's problem. If a contact in their intelligence services has passed the information on it's a scoop. They may not know if it's not been verified.

I have another theory. Is it possible that whoever leaked the information is a Trump supporter and is creating an opportunity for Trump to shut the Press down - which we know is exactly what he wants?!

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 25 May 2017, 18:57

.......and you're right, Donnamarie. The press here have a very different relationship with the security services and they are much more likely to respect embargoes on sensitive material if it is going to help to apprehend those who should be arrested.

The problem is if you publish, no one can act covertly and those who need to be apprehended have been warned - and fled to do it again

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 25 May 2017, 19:55

Donnamarie - It doesn't matter that what was printed would have come out sooner or later. What matters is that information that could have compromised the investigation was released without clearing it with our intelligence allies in the UK. Why should they trust us going forward? And if they don't trust us, how much more danger are we in because we're not getting the intel we need?

I don't know who gave the information to The Times, but it surprised me that they printed it. Their standards seem to be slipping.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Thu 25 May 2017, 20:01

I certainly don't condone leaking of classified info and at this point I'm concerned why this was leaked and why the Times felt comfortable printing it. To add to PAN's theory other theories being bantered about.  It has been suggested that the administration may have caused the leak to make the intelligence services here look bad and give more credence to Trump's outcries of inexcusable to the number of leaks coming out since his election.  Need a huge investigation!  A distraction tactic.  Another possibility ...  because of all the criticism Trump has bestowed on our intelligence agencies (called then Nazis early on) plus the firing of Comey, that possibly an intelligence outlet let this leak happen to make Trump look bad. A bit of revenge ....
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 25 May 2017, 20:20


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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 25 May 2017, 23:25

German newspapers considered: 
Trump gave the NATO a tongue-lashing:

Live TV 


Trump scolds NATO allies over defense spending
By Jeremy Diamond, CNN 
Updated 2:21 PM EDT, Thu May 25, 2017


Story highlights

  • Trump attended NATO meetings Thursday
  • He delivered the remarks in front NATO members

[size]
(CNN)President Donald Trump on Thursday chided NATO member countries directly for not meeting their financial commitments to the alliance and declined to reiterate US commitment to the alliance's mutual defense pledge.
"Members of the alliance must finally contribute their fair share and meet their financial obligations," Trump told the heads of state, who stood silently -- some shifting uncomfortably -- behind him.
"Twenty-three of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should be paying and what they are supposed to be paying for their defense. This is not fair to the people and taxpayers of the United States," he said.



The call appeared to reveal Trump's continued misunderstanding of NATO members' defense commitments. While Trump argued that many of the allies "owe massive amounts of money from past years," the 2% defense spending benchmark that allies must meet is designed to boost their military, not to funnel money to NATO or other allies.
Trump's remarks -- paired with his conspicuous decision not to reiterate US commitment to NATO's mutual defense provision, Article 5 -- are likely to unsettle allies who had hoped to hear Trump assuage their concerns about his commitment to the historic alliance.
Moreover, the President's scolding was cast against a striking backdrop: the freshly unveiled 9/11 memorial, which marks the only time the NATO alliance has invoked Article 5. That decision triggered NATO's participation in the war in Afghanistan.
Remarking on the official opening of NATO's $1 billion new headquarters, Trump offered a tongue-in-cheek comment that he "never asked once what the new NATO headquarters cost."
Trump first cast doubt on the provision during his presidential campaign, shocking members of the alliance when he suggested the US might only defend members of the alliance who "fulfill their obligations to us."
Trump only addressed the Article 5 commitment in passing at the top of his remarks, noting that "our NATO allies responded swiftly and decisively, invoking for the first time in its history the Article 5 collective defense commitments."
He did not promise the US would do the same should a NATO ally come under attack.
Instead, Trump badgered heads of state of the alliance that an increased financial commitment was needed.
Under the NATO treaty, members of the alliance must commit 2% of their GDP to defense spending, a benchmark that only five of the alliance's 28 members currently meet.
"Two percent is the bare minimum for confronting today's very real and very vicious threats," Trump said. "If NATO countries made their full and complete contributions, then NATO would be even stronger than it is today, especially from the threat of terrorism."



Briefing reporters Wednesday on Air Force One, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said "of course we support Article 5," but declined to say whether Trump would reiterate the US' adherence to the mutual defense pledge in his NATO remarks.
In recent months, Trump has sought to assuage some NATO ally concerns, declaring last month in a joint news conference with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg the alliance is "no longer obsolete" as he had claimed on the campaign trail.
The President also reiterated his call for stricter controls on immigration and the flow of refugees, saying "the NATO of the future must include a great focus on terrorism and immigration."
"You have thousands and thousands of people pouring into our various countries and spreading throughout. And in many cases, we have no idea who they are," Trump said. "We must be tough. We must be strong. And we must be vigilant."
While Trump signed an executive order to halt the flow of refugees into the US and ban citizens of several Muslim-majority countries, other NATO leaders have opened their countries to refugees and beat back criticism that those policies could increase the terror threat.
Speaking ahead of Trump at the unveiling of a memorial to the fall of the Berlin Wall was German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
NATO allies should remain "united in the trust that it is not isolation and the building of walls that make us successful, but an open society," she said.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 25 May 2017, 23:33

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Appeals Court Will Not Reinstate Trump’s Revised Travel Ban
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Protesters gathered outside the United States Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, across from the Virginia Capitol, in Richmond, before the court examined a ruling to block President Trump’s travel ban earlier this month.
STEVE HELBER / ASSOCIATED PRESS
By ADAM LIPTAK
MAY 25, 2017
WASHINGTON — A federal appeals court refused Thursday to reinstate President Trump’s revised travel ban, saying it “drips with religious intolerance, animus and discrimination.”

The decision, from the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, in Richmond, Va., was a fresh setback for the administration’s efforts to limit travel from several predominantly Muslim countries.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said the administration would appeal the decision to the Supreme Court.

“This Department of Justice will continue to vigorously defend the power and duty of the executive branch to protect the people of this country from danger, and will seek review of this case in the United States Supreme Court,” Mr. Sessions said in a statement.

The court’s vote was 10 to 3. The court divided along ideological lines, with the three Republican appointees in dissent.

Writing for the majority, Chief Judge Roger L. Gregory said Mr. Trump’s statements on the campaign trail concerning Muslims showed that the revised order was the product of religious hostility. Such discrimination, he wrote, violates the First Amendment’s ban on government establishment of religion.

“Then-candidate Trump’s campaign statements reveal that on numerous occasions, he expressed anti-Muslim sentiment, as well as his intent, if elected, to ban Muslims from the United States,” Judge Gregory wrote. He cited, as an example, a 2015 statement calling for “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our representatives can figure out what is going on.”

The Trump administration had urged the appeals court to ignore the statements as loose language made before the president assumed office. But Judge Gregory said the court could take account of the comments.

“The campaign statements here are probative of purpose because they are closely related in time, attributable to the primary decisionmaker, and specific and easily connected to the challenged action,” Judge Gregory wrote.

In dissent, Judge Paul V. Niemeyer said that the majority had made a grave error in considering the comments to interpret the executive order.

“Because of their nature, campaign statements are unbounded resources by which to find intent of various kinds,” he wrote. “They are often shorthand for larger ideas; they are explained, modified, retracted and amplified as they are repeated and as new circumstances and arguments arise. And they are often ambiguous. A court applying the majority’s new rule could thus have free rein to select whichever expression of a candidate’s developing ideas best supports its desired conclusion.”


The administration had argued that consideration of campaign rhetoric would chill political speech protected by the First Amendment. That was not a problem, Judge Gregory said.

“To the extent that our review chills campaign promises to condemn and exclude entire religious groups, we think that a welcome restraint,” he wrote.

The new order was an attempt to address judicial objections to the original travel ban, issued in January. The revised order’s 90-day suspension of entry from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen was more limited and subject to case-by-case exceptions. It omitted Iraq, which had been listed in the earlier order, and it removed a complete ban on Syrian refugees. And it deleted explicit references to religion.

Like the earlier order, the new one suspended the nation’s refugee program for 120 days and reduced the annual number of refugees to 50,000 from 120,000.

In his dissent, Judge Niemeyer wrote that the law did not permit judges to second-guess a president’s national security judgments.

But Judge Gregory wrote that courts had a role to play.

“Although the Supreme Court has certainly encouraged deference in our review of immigration matters that implicate national security interests,” he wrote, “it has not countenanced judicial abdication, especially where constitutional rights, values, and principles are at stake.”

It was more than plausible, he added, that the revised order’s “stated national security interest was provided in bad faith, as a pretext for its religious purpose.”

“The government has repeatedly asked this court to ignore evidence, circumscribe our own review, and blindly defer to executive action, all in the name of the Constitution’s separation of powers,” Judge Gregory wrote. “We decline to do so, not only because it is the particular province of the judicial branch to say what the law is, but also because we would do a disservice to our constitutional structure were we to let its mere invocation silence the call for meaningful judicial review.”

In March, federal judges in Maryland and Hawaii blocked parts of the new executive order, saying they could not ignore the remarks from Mr. Trump and his allies. “Simply because a decision maker made the statements during a campaign does not wipe them” from judicial memory, Judge Theodore D. Chuang of Federal District Court in Maryland wrote in the decision under review by the appeals court.

A second appeals court, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in San Francisco, heard arguments recently in an appeal of the Hawaii decision. That court is expected to rule shortly.

Mr. Trump issued his initial order on Jan. 27, a week into his presidency. Less than two weeks later, the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit affirmed an order halting it.

Though Mr. Trump vowed to fight the ruling, he did not appeal to the Supreme Court. Instead, he issued a revised executive order. This time around, the administration will appeal, setting the stage for a major constitutional showdown.

Get politics and Washington news updates via Facebook, Twitter and in the Morning Briefing newsletter.

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carolhathaway
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 25 May 2017, 23:51

Ahead of his meeting with the NATO, Trump also met the leaders of the EU in Brussels. Unfortunately I couldn't find an article on CNN or the New York Times, so you have to accept that source:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/701517/trump-reportedly-told-eu-officials-germany-evil

Sorry, it didn't work to copy and paste the article.

Besides of calling Germany evil, diplomats also reported that they were shocked about how uninformed Trump was. Which really surprises all of us... Rolling Eyes
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Fri 26 May 2017, 03:48

I happen to be watching Trump's speech at the NATO building today. It started out well enough but then he started to criticize NATO countries for not paying their full share. It went on and on. I was cringing as I listened to him berating the leaders in public that way. I'm sure he did this publicly to score points with his base here at home. But on the world stage he made a fool (again) of himself. He has absolutely no diplomatic skills ... and yes he is unbelievably "uninformed". I had not heard in the U.S. press his comments about Germany being "evil". Wow. Maybe he did say "bad". Either way his use of the English language gets him in a lot of hot water.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Fri 26 May 2017, 04:10

Carol I found this article from The Huffington Post about this EU meeting. Trump's ignorance is just stunning ....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-germans-very-bad_us_5927503be4b06f60805323dc?ncid=APPLENEWS00001
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Fri 26 May 2017, 12:51

I am loving Emmanuel Macron this morning!

Not just becos he's in love with an older woman, but look at this!

https://twitter.com/HollandReid/status/867753849599209475/video/1

https://twitter.com/calvinstowell/status/867758381884485633

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by LizzyNY on Fri 26 May 2017, 14:07

Trump is in every way, shape and form an embarrassment to the US. Every time he opens his mouth he shows his ignorance and stupidity. He is a total boor and proof that money can't buy class.

For a US citizen, it is painful to watch someone so clueless and uncouth representing our country. He is destroying our reputation abroad and our government from within. I hope he ends up in jail - and the sooner the better!
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Mon 29 May 2017, 09:45

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Mon 29 May 2017, 12:56

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4549802/Trump-hits-fake-news-following-Kushner-reports.html

[size=34]Trump says he has 'total confidence' in Jared Kushner even as White House officials 'are urging the president's son-in-law to take a leave of absence' in light of escalating FBI Russia probe[/size]

  • President Trump gave public vote of confidence to his embattled son-in-law 

  • Nonetheless, officials reportedly urged Jared Kushner to take leave of absence

  • President's son-in-law and senior adviser is focus of an FBI investigation

  • Kushner reportedly tried to set up secret line of communication with Kremlin

  • Trump slammed the reports about Kushner over the weekend as 'fake news' 

  • White House insiders say that Kushner will not leave because he is a 'made man'


President Donald Trump said late Sunday that he had 'total confidence' in his embattled son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, it was reported.
'Jared is doing a great job for the country,' the president was quoted as saying by The New York Times.
'I have total confidence in him. He is respected by virtually everyone and is working on programs that will save our country billions of dollars. 
'In addition to that, and perhaps more importantly, he is a very good person.' the president said. 
Trump's vote of confidence came in the wake of reports that senior officials close to the president are urging Kushner to take a leave of absence.


+9


Jared Kushner, senior advisor and son-in-law to President Donald Trump, is being urged by White House officials to take a leave of absence, according to a new report. Kushner is seen above taking a helicopter ride over Baghdad, Iraq on April 3, 2017


+9


White House officials believe Kushner (seen left with Trump on January 31 in the White House) should step aside temporarily amid reports that he is being scrutinized by the FBI


+9


Trump said on Sunday that many of the leaks from the White House were 'fake news,' following reports his son-in-law tried to set up a secret channel of communications with Moscow before Trump took office


+9


'Whenever you see the words "sources say" in the fake news media, and they don't mention names...' Trump tweeted on Sunday


+9


'...it is very possible that those sources don't exist but are made up by fake news writers. #FakeNews is the enemy!'
White House officials believe Kushner should step aside temporarily amid reports that he is being scrutinized by the FBI, according to ABC News. 
The FBI is investigating associates of the president and their alleged contacts with the Russian government during the recent election campaign. 
Trump said on Sunday that many of the leaks from the White House were 'fake news,' following reports his son-in-law tried to set up a secret channel of communications with Moscow before Trump took office.
Trump returned to the White House after a nine-day trip to the Middle East and Europe that ended on Saturday to face more questions about alleged communications between Kushner and Russia's ambassador to Washington.

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'It is my opinion that many of the leaks coming out of the White House are fabricated lies made up by the #FakeNews media,' Trump wrote in a series of Twitter posts on Sunday.
Kushner, who is married to Trump's daughter Ivanka, had contacts with Moscow in December about opening a secret back channel of communications, according to news reports published while Trump was away on his trip.


+9


Bob Corker (above), the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he was informed by people in Kushner's camp that he would be willing to talk 'when the time is right'
Kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the Russian ambassador to the United States during and after the 2016 presidential campaign, seven current and former US officials told Reuters.
'Whenever you see the words 'sources say' in the fake news media, and they don't mention names ... it is very possible that those sources don't exist but are made up by fake news writers. #FakeNews is the enemy!' Trump wrote.
Indeed, White House insiders, some of whom are said to be furious with Kushner for the latest debacle in the never-ending Russia-saga, say that despite his apparent folly, he is going nowhere.
'He is a made man,' one insider said to the Daily Beast, comparing Kushner to a fully-fledged member of the Mafia, who is under the protection of his Boss, in this case the president.
'Jared is not going anywhere [and] it doesn't matter what regrettable mistakes he's made,' said the source.




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Jeremy Corbyn lashes out following question about leadership



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+9


Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee on Sunday called for a review into Kushner's security clearance in the wake of reports he wanted to set up a secret back-channel with Russia


+9


Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly insisted Sunday that a secret back channel between the Kremlin and the Trump transition team was perfectly 'normal' and 'acceptable'
Trump's tweets came as the media reported that the White House was preparing to establish a 'war room' to combat mounting questions about ties between Russia and his presidential campaign.
Contacts between Trump associates and Russian officials during the campaign coincided with what US intelligence agencies concluded was a Kremlin effort through computer hacking, fake news and propaganda to boost Trump's chances of winning the White House.
Kushner, for his part, is said to be 'more than willing to answer any and all questions' about his alleged contacts with Russia, a senior Republican senator told NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday.
Bob Corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he was informed by people in Kushner's camp that he would be willing to talk.
'They reached out to us yesterday to make sure we knew that was the case,' Corker said. 
But the senator from Tennessee added that Kushner would speak publicly when he felt the time was right.
'Look, let's let this unfold,' he said. 
'He seems to me to be a very open person and again, I'd let him speak for himself when the time is right on all these issues and at that time we can actually render judgement on the reality of what did or didn't take place.'
Corker said he believed that Kushner is 'not a target, so I think I would just wait.' 
The ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee on Sunday called for a review into Kushner's security clearance in the wake of reports he wanted to set up a secret back-channel with Russia.
California Democrat Adam Schiff made the comment during an interview with ABC's This Week on Sunday morning.
'There is another question about his security clearance and whether he was forthcoming about his contacts on that,' Schiff said.
'If these allegations are true and he had discussions with the Russians about establishing a back-channel and didn't reveal that, that's a real problem in terms of whether he should maintain that kind of a security clearance.'


+9


White House officials may not need to wait long for Kushner to leave. According to a report which appeared Saturday in Politico, his wife, Ivanka Trump (seen right with her husband at the Vatican on Wednesday), is open to the possibility of moving back to New York 

[size=18]Jared Kushner under scrutiny by the FBI in the Russia probe




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He was then pressed on whether the president's son-in-law should immediately lose his clearance, and stopped short of calling for it to be revoked.
'I think we need to get to the bottom of these allegations, but I do think there ought to be a review of his security clearance to find out whether he was truthful and candid, if not, there's no way he can maintain that kind of a clearance.'
One senior member of the Trump administration, however, doesn't see what all the fuss is about.
Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly insisted Sunday that a secret back channel between the Kremlin and the Trump transition team was perfectly 'normal' and 'acceptable'.
Kelly defended Kushner, telling ABC News that 'any communication to a country, particularly a country like Russia, is a good thing.'
The Homeland Security secretary told co-anchor Martha Raddatz on Sunday that all communications gathered through a back channel would be 'shared across the government, so it's not a bad thing to have multiple communication lines' with any country.
However, he did concede that communications conducted using Russian diplomatic facilities - as the Washington Post reports that Kushner sought - 'would be considered to be … somewhat compromised.'   
White House officials may not need to wait long for Kushner to leave.
According to a report which appeared Saturday in Politico, his wife, Ivanka Trump, is open to the possibility of moving back to New York and returning to private life.
Ivanka Trump is reportedly 'not sold' on staying in Washington for the long haul, according to Politico.  
The Kushners have reportedly rented - rather than purchased - their home in an exclusive Washington, DC, area so that they could re-evaluate their future every six months. 

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by LizzyNY on Mon 29 May 2017, 14:29

Does anyone know: If they move back to NY and are no longer involved in government work, do we still have to pay for their security and travel expenses?
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Mon 29 May 2017, 19:05

They could have declined the security  but of course since it is free they are taking advantage.
Trump will have security  along with his wife if she wants it until they die.  
I have no idea why we are footing their travel expenses especially since Ivanka has no real title or job
unless it is the title Second first lady.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Mon 29 May 2017, 21:04

As far as understand it all the President's family get secret service coverage for as long as this guy is in office. I don't think the government is responsible for their travel expenses though (unless they are working for the administration). But anytime any member of the family goes on a trip (business or personal) the cost of Secret Service detail, their travel and hotel expenses will be covered by the government.

I heard the author of "The Art of the Deal" say last week that the situation Trump is in right now is most likely causing Trump to lose control emotionally. He absolutely cannot stand being criticized or seen as losing. He really thinks Trump would find a way to resign from office rather than be impeached! I'm ok with that. Please.

.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by LizzyNY on Mon 29 May 2017, 22:12

Donnamarie - I was, too, until I watched John Oliver go over the line of succession if Trump resigns. All uber-conservatives! If he resigns he'll have to take the rest of the Republican party with him or we'll be in worse shape than we are now.

At least with Trump acting the fool the Republicans haven't been able to pass too much legislation and are facing opposition to everything they try to do. If Trump resigns they'll be able to focus all their attention on their agenda.

I'm hoping he hangs on long enough for the Democrats to increase their numbers to the point here they'll be able to influence legislation.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Mon 29 May 2017, 23:45

I wonder if you'd enjoy this - Britain's leading satirical show and last Friday's episode on Trump's trip......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4J73P4YO_A

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Tue 30 May 2017, 04:42

Thanks PAN for that! It's amazing how much great material Trump has given to comedians. What will they do when Trump gets the ax?

Lizzy, yep if Trumpster goes Pence gets the prize. Won't be much relief with him in the White House and a majority Republican Congress. They are all such a sorry and embarrassing bunch aren't they? But Trump is downright dangerous. His trip overseas was a mess. By his own hand he is seriously disrupting our relationships with our allies. And his distain for the press and continual accusations of fake news is having a detrimental effect on our country. IMO his family and his administration do not respect the rule of law so he has to go asap!
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by annemarie on Tue 30 May 2017, 11:56

It is amazing how he hates the press when he was just plain old Donald he had no problem with them. This was when they were kissing his tail he lapped it up . Now he hates them.

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 30 May 2017, 19:51

They want to talk to Trump's lawyer now - but he doesn't want to talk to them!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40098658

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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by carolhathaway on Tue 30 May 2017, 22:32

That's a really interesting open letter by Dan Rather:

https://m.facebook.com/theDanRather/posts/10158754731525716
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

Post by Donnamarie on Wed 31 May 2017, 04:27

Well said by Mr. Rather.
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Re: The Serious Side - part 2

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