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Post by carolhathaway on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:21

WWHS,
I've said it here a few times:
We all know terror in Europe. You had the IRA terrorizing Britain (and I do remember this time very well), Germany and the RAF (NOT the Royal Air Force) fighting the establishment with bombing, kidnappings and murders, the ETA in Spain, a similar organization in Italy...
The 1970s and 80s were just horrible about that.

If you combine it with not knowing if either the States or the Soviet Union would start a nuclear war and knowing that these bombs were placed in the heart of Europe, didn't make it easier. So I was always thankful for the peace and security we've had for the last 25 years.
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Post by What Would He Say on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:29

CarolH....absolutely peace at all costs.....

AnneM.... we used to have a famous comedian here...if he met you or if he was onstage he would always end with the line "goodnight and may YOUR God go with you".... says it all.....
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Post by ladybugcngc on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:32

What Would He Say wrote:There is comparison as far as I can see....the UK underwent appalling atrocities at the hand of the IRA....we Irish were never banned from free movement between countries... does that not compare?...
WWHS:  "He may be mad...and bad.... does it remind you of anyone?....(ISIS)"
 
What does this comment have to do the the IRA.
 
I agree WWHS, President Trump’s actions are over the top.  As you see the courts have stepped in.  However the wicked twisted ideology of ISIS/IS and their murderous actions needs to be addressed globally
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Post by melbert on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:35

What Would He Say wrote:Sorry Mel I don't get it....

WWHS, I'm sorry, I don't normally post on this thread.  What did I say that you don't get?
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Post by carolhathaway on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:39

annemarie wrote:How many terrorist attacks were carried out by immigrants from the 7 banned countries.

http://people.com/politics/donald-trump-refugee-muslim-ban-terrorist-attack-us-statistics/
Annemarie,
thanks for this interesting article - although, as we know, people isn't the source we should trust, but these crimes were cleared.
It was actually shocking for me to see how mass crimes were committed, how many lives were lost. Crimes are committed by people from every religion, race and every country.
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Post by annemarie on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:47

What Would He Say, it does say it all.

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Post by party animal - not! on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 21:54

Ah, WWHS, yes, the wonderful Dave Allen.

Ladybug, the threat from ISIS is being addressed globally.

Every single country's intelligence services are working around the clock on it. 

And obviously it's not a great idea to announce what you're doing!

If Donald Trump makes many more moves like this just to prove to his voters that the USA is dealing with them, he gives them every possible excuse to infiltrate or attack. 

Hatred of Muslims is exactly the excuse they want. 

Remember that they are part of Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard and were formed after the American invasion of Iraq.

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Post by RoccoAhoy on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 22:38

President Trump is going to do great things for the country,  folks.
He's going to do wonderful things.

Just what USA needed.  A father figure.

George Clooney is just no Cary Grant.  LOL
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Post by ladybugcngc on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 22:59

PAN - I have no doubt intelligence agencies across the globe have ISIS on their radar.  I'm talking about a global effort that defines the IDEOLOGY as well as their actions as CRIMINAL. 
 
Currently ISIS (and their partners) actions are based on the idea their call of god is greater than the rule of law.  Action against ISIS has to start with a formal legal international declaration of truth that their ideology and actions therein are NOT above the rule of law and therefore, they do not have the god given right to kill/murder, steal, and destroy.
 

I clearly understand the Bush Administration invaded Iraq and we are now dealing with ISIS a wicked/evil murderous group.  History proves ISIS (and partners) don’t need the recent actions of President Trump to act; ISIS and their partners steal, murder, and destroy... under the wicked belief they have the god given right to do so. 
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Post by ladybugcngc on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 23:10

RoccoAhoy wrote:President Trump is going to do great things for the country,  folks.
He's going to do wonderful things.

Just what USA needed.  A father figure.

George Clooney is just no Cary Grant.  LOL
Rocco, what is President Trump going to do for the country?
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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 00:14

https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/825797672258961409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


And this is very sad

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/syrian-subjects-white-helmets-no-longer-attending-2017-oscars-trump-ban-969716

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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 00:41

J K Rowling:

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/825436783903125504

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Post by Katiedot on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 05:20

RoccoAhoy wrote:Leader of the free world.
 Just a point of FACTUAL correction: Donald Dumb is the leader of the United States only.  Not the world (free or otherwise).  And, let's be honest here, he's barely the leader of the US at the moment.  I've never seen such a hated president.  Nobody else voted for him apart from American and he leads nobody else apart from Americans - and them, barely.

ladybugcngc wrote:  Over the last 16 years our military has been in a war that has NOT been defined and has no designated end. 
 You're referring to the 'war' in Iraq?  That's not a war.  That was the US deciding to attack Iraq and kill over a hundred thousand civilians and brutally destabalise a country, leaving it worse off than under Sadam Hussein - some 'achievement'!  Iraq posed no threat to the US so it was the choice of the US government to create a fight and then re-brand it a 'war' to make people feel better about the death toll.  

IMO the military personnel deserve better than a government that treats them as cannon fodder in far-flung countries where they have no right to be.  Under Trump it seems they can expect more of the same.

What Would He Say wrote:The IRA bombed the sh/t out of Britain in '70s (when I was at school in UK)....NEVER at any point did the UK it's people or its government ever consider a travel ban.
 Thanks for mentioning that.  Good point.

The IRA, like IS/Daesh are a terrorist organisation. Unlike IS in the USA, the IRA were murderously lethal in their attacks in the UK with a much higher death toll (both in terms of actual numbers and in terms of percentage per population). and yet it's true: no travel ban on Irish people to the UK.  The idea would have been unthinkable even in the worst of the troubles.  

The IRA and IS have one more thing in common: both are terrorist organisations and neither will be defeated with violence, because you can't go to war against a terrorist organisation.  You remove their support. You remove their finances (or make it very hard for them to do business) and most importantly, you negotiate and remove their casus belli.

The IRA (or whatever they're calling themselves now) aren't a spent force yet but I think we're now smarter than before and we won't see a return to the bad old days.  This seems to be a destination that the US is happily heading towards.  Gleefully, even.

ladybugcngc wrote:   History proves ISIS (and partners) don’t need the recent actions of President Trump to act; ISIS and their partners steal, murder, and destroy... under the wicked belief they have the god given right to do so.
 No, history proves that terrorists need antagonists.  You can't fight against nothing.  Even had Clinton won, they would still exist and would still pose a small threat to the people of the US, but Trump's actions have given them cause to do damage under the guise of "see, they hate us and call our for destruction, so we need to destroy them first".  

ladybugcngc wrote:Rocco, what is President Trump going to do for the country?
 For the first time in his life, this many-times failed businessman is going to make a whole lot of money. And for his family and his buddies.  Everyone else can go to hell.  And probably will if they're not white, middle class and male.
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Post by Katiedot on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 06:16

The reason why I wrote that IS are only a small threat to the security of the US, given all the other things you can die of each year:

The Serious Side - part 2 - Page 11 C3rewe11
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Post by carolhathaway on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 06:57

Katie,
thank you so much for these statistics!

Yes, it's unfair when people are deadly injured.
Yes, it seems to be more horrible when people die due to an attack / assassination.
But it's not as much as you might expect! It even wasn't the majority in 2001.

And it doesn't help if we pay back the same way. 
Some terrorists kill others in the name of Allah? So we'll try to get rid od all Muslims, then there will never be an attack anymore. Doesn't work.
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 08:01

Katiedot wrote:The reason why I wrote that IS are only a small threat to the security of the US, given all the other things you can die of each year:

The Serious Side - part 2 - Page 11 C3rewe11
Other than Islamic jihadist murders (and their partners) none of the people mentioned are connected to a murderous network who believe they are entitled to the wealth of the globe and have the god given right to murder, steal, and destroy to obtain it.


Last edited by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 08:37; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 08:05

ladybugcngc wrote: Over the last 16 years our military has been in a war that has NOT been defined and has no designated end. 


Katiedot Wrote:  You're referring to the 'war' in Iraq?  That's not a war.  That was the US deciding to attack Iraq and kill over a hundred thousand civilians and brutally destabalise a country, leaving it worse off than under Sadam Hussein - some 'achievement'!  Iraq posed no threat to the US so it was the choice of the US government to create a fight and then re-brand it a 'war' to make people feel better about the death toll.  

IMO the military personnel deserve better than a government that treats them as cannon fodder in far-flung countries where they have no right to be.  Under Trump it seems they can expect more of the same.



My response:  Yes I’m referring to the conflict in Iraq that has been called a war by our government (Bush and Obama administrations) and presented as a war by all mainstream news agents.  I know “War” has to be declared, defined, with a clear designated end goal.  If I know it’s not a war and you know it’s not a war, why haven’t mainstream news agent informed the public it’s not a war? 




I agree with you 100% our military deserves better.  It is my hope those who voted Trump in office, will hold him accountable to expose the middle east conflict for what it is:  U.S. Oil/Corporate greed.


ladybugcngc wrote:  History proves ISIS (and partners) don’t need the recent actions of President Trump to act; ISIS and their partners steal, murder, and destroy... under the wicked belief they have the god given right to do so.


 Katiedot:  No, history proves that terrorists need antagonists.  You can't fight against nothing.  Even had Clinton won, they would still exist and would still pose a small threat to the people of the US, but Trump's actions have given them cause to do damage under the guise of "see, they hate us and call our for destruction, so we need to destroy them first".  
Ladybug Response:  Words are very powerful, that’s why I don’t use the term terrorist when referring to ISIS.  Terrorist implies ISIS has a political agenda, what’s the agenda?

Ladybug  response:  They are not terrorists, ISIS and their partners are murderers who believe their religious beliefs are above rule of law, they believe they are entitled to global wealth, and they believe, they have the god given right to kill-murder, steal, and destroy.   They don’t care about what anybody thinks of them, they view themselves as the righteous called by god to avenge what they perceive to be unrighteous, unholy, and unjust.
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Post by Katiedot on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 09:05

ladybugcngc wrote:Other than Islamic jihadist murders (and their partners) none of the people mentioned are connected to a murderous network who believe they are entitled to the wealth of the globe and have the god given right to murder, steal, and destroy to obtain it.
 True, but completely irrelevant to the point.  Trump says he's stopping muslims from entering the US because they represent a threat.  This is not true.  Toddlers with guns represent a greater threat.  So does lightening. So do cars, beds and buses.  Will he ban all of those too?  No.  

The reason what he's doing is wrong is because he's inventing an excuse ('public safety', 'terror threat') to attack a group of people and create fear in the hearts of Americans.  I'll leave you the words of someone who was very much more the expert on this than I am to explain what I see happening:

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

In an interview with Gilbert in Göring's jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946)

ladybugcngc wrote:Words are very powerful, that’s why I don’t use the term terrorist when referring to ISIS.  Terrorist implies ISIS has a political agenda, what’s the agenda?
 A terrorist doesn't have to be political.  IS agenda is abundantly covered in any number of journalistic articles about them.  Whatever you want to label them, there's no difference between IS and other terrorists.
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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:24

Lysa Heslov's Twitter page is a revelation

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Post by annemarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:57

Pan what does she say , her page is private.
.

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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 12:14

No it's not, Annemarie. Her Instagram page is tho. Just Google Lysa Heslov and click on the Twitter link

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Post by annemarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 13:44

Thanks Pan got it. That is the way a lot of Americans feel he needs to go.

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Post by carolhathaway on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 14:14

Sen. Chuck Schumer on the ban:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufbw6wGSbew
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Post by Donnamarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 14:18

Thank you Carol for the video.  

And thanks Katiedot for articulating so well our argument 
against this unjust and unjustifiable ban.
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Post by What Would He Say on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 14:20

I think I need to explain....don't get me wrong I think The Don is BAT SHIT CRAZY....

I also think every cloud.....and right now ISIS is too quiet....it is well known they have been looking nuclear for some time....trying, but not as far as we know succeeding....but like a toddler, if you can hear them, you know pretty much what they are up to....When they go silent you worry.....

Obama, Hillary, Holland, Merkel and May are all BAT SHIT SENSIBLE ....safe pair of hands ALL....

As I said in an earlier post, what Trump did at the weekend was appalling ....and could so easily have happened to my family....but the UK were "sensible" "responsible"......and that is what ISIS expect....The weekend was a game changer for ISIS....With the world against him, Trump, they ISIS are in uncharted water......

Play bat shit crazy against bat shit crazy.....and we might just be in time to stop them holding a country or the world to ransom....

If not....put your head between your legs and kiss you ass goodbye.....What a way to go....Human race gone in a flash 'cos the crazies got in to power......
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Post by annemarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 15:39

Donald dumb wanted Americans to sue Saudi Arabia for 911 he's all for it. Yet he isn't banning them from the U.S and will still do business with them.

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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 15:43

Yep.

https://mic.com/articles/130070/here-are-some-of-donald-trump-s-middle-east-business-ventures#.AxwRlmyJd

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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 15:48

Ladybug:  Words are very powerful, that’s why I don’t use the term terrorist when referring to ISIS.  Terrorist implies ISIS has a political agenda, what’s the agenda?


Katie:  A terrorist doesn't have to be political.  IS agenda is abundantly covered in any number of journalistic articles about them.  Whatever you want to label them, there's no difference between IS and other terrorists.


Ladybug response:  Terrorist don’t view their actions as criminal; ISIS views their actions as justified. Murder by definition is criminal; the actions of ISIS are murder.  Please send me a journalistic reference where the agenda of IS/ISIS is outlined.  I’ve looked and can’t find a journalistic article regarding the agenda of ISIS
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 15:52

carolhathaway wrote:Sen. Chuck Schumer on the ban:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufbw6wGSbew

I view Donald Trump's ban as over the top, however, it puts the threat of ISIS and other murderous groups at the top of the radar.
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Post by annemarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 16:27

They know it is criminal they simply do not care. Their religion states it is wrong to kill. They can say what they like the reality is they all know the truth they won't admit it .

I can steal an apple and justify it by saying I was hungry but I know it is a crime to steal.

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Post by it's me on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 19:37

Interesting article 


Bando ai musulmani. Media arabi: “Con la xenofobia Trump distrae la gente dalle promesse che non manterrà”
[img(1px,0.40625px)]http://st.ilfattoquotidiano.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/hijab-675.jpg[/img]
Trump sta continuando ciò che ha iniziato durante la campagna elettorale: attinge dalla paura generata dalla xenofobia che rende la gente entusiasta di muri e divieti, e la distrae da tutte le promesse che non saranno mantenute”. A scriverlo è Suad Abdul Khabeer, assistente professoressa alla Purdue University, in un articolo su Al Jazeera, emittente panarabacommentando il decreto con cui il presidente degli Usa ha bloccato ingresso negli Stati Uniti a rifugiati e cittadini di 7 Paesi a maggioranza islamica.
Il tycoon, spiega l’accademica, “ha ottenuto il supporto alla sua improbabile candidatura fomentando la marea, già ribollente, del razzismo anti-musulmanonegli Stati Uniti“. Con la recente introduzione del Muslim Ban,  Trump sta “dicendo semplicemente ai suoi sostenitori  ‘ti ho detto che avrei fatto qualcosa per questo spauracchio – l’islam e i musulmani – e guarda, lo sto facendo’. E questo qualcosa – conclude la Khabeer – “è doppiamente importante” per “quelle persone che credono” che bisogna fare l’america “great again“, non solo “difendendosi dal diavolo del estremismo islamico”, ma anche per preservare la “democrazia e la libertà”.
La nuova legge potrebbe essere il preambolo per una svolta che richiama alla memoria l’amministrazione Bush Jr. Il mondo – scrive Faruk Yousef, scrittore iracheno, su al Arab, quotidiano panarabo basato a Londra – “è pronto ad accettare il nuovo caos, violento, che sarà uguale a quello causato da George Bush Jr quando era alla Casa Bianca?”. Certamente – prosegue Yousef – Trump non deluderà chi ha avuto fiducia in lui”. Dalle proteste contro la nuova amministrazione, sono emerse figure di richiamo. Come Munira Ahmed32anni, freelance, diventata “il simbolo della resistenza a Trump” – scrive il Guardian – durante la “Women March” di sabato scorso. Munira è infatti la protagonista di un celebre manifesto nato nel 2001, dopo l’11 settembre, in cui indossa come velo una bandiera americana. La foto è stata scattata dal fotografo Ridwan Adhami.  “Il messaggio che ho voluto trasmettere – racconta Ahmed a al Arabiya – è che un’americana non è meno musulmana di chiunque altro. Una musulmana non è neanche meno americana di qualcun altro. Queste cose non si escludono a vicenda”. Al giorno d’oggi però, prosegue la freelance, “affronto costantemente la discriminazione ogni volta che torno negli Usa, dopo un viaggio all’estero. Quando attraverso la dogana in aeroporto, sono sempre fermata per essere interrogata su questioni secondarie, anche se il mio passaporto americano afferma chiaramente che questo è il mio luogo di nascita. So certamente che tutto ciò ha definitivamente a che fare con il mio nome, Munira Ahmed“.




Fast transl



Invitation to Muslims. Arab media: "With xenophobia Trump distracts people from promises they will not keep"

Invitation to Muslims. Arab media: "With xenophobia Trump distracts people from promises they will not keep"
"Trump is continuing what he started during the election campaign: draws from the fear generated by the xenophobia that makes people excited about walls and prohibitions, and distracts her from all the promises that won't be kept." Writing it is Suad Abdul Khabeer, Assistant Professor at Purdue University, in an article about Al Jazeera, Pan-Arab broadcaster, commenting on the decree by which the President of the United States has blocked entry to the United States for refugees and citizens of Muslim-majority Countries 7.

The tycoon says, "has gained support with his unlikely candidacy fomenting the tide, already seething, anti-Muslim racism in the United States." With the recent introduction of the Muslim Ban, Trump is "simply saying his supporters ' I told you I'd do something to this Bugbear – islam and Muslims – and look, I'm doing it. And this something – concludes the Khabeer – "is doubly important for those people who believe" that we need to make america great again ", not just" guarding the devil of Islamic extremism ", but also to preserve the" democracy and freedom ".

The new law could be the preamble to a shift that is reminiscent of the Bush administration Jr. The world – says Faruk Yousef, Iraqi writer, London-based Pan-Arab newspaper al Arab – "is ready to accept the new chaos, violent, which is the same as that caused by George Bush Jrwhen he was in the White House?". Certainly he won't disappoint those who Yousef – Trump had confidence in him. " By protests against the new administration, there emerged figures. As Munira Ahmed, 32 years, freelance, become the symbol of resistance "to Trump" – writes the Guardian – during the "Women March" last Saturday. Munira is the protagonist of a famous manifesto 2001 September 11, born in after she wears an American flag as a veil. The photo was taken by photographer Ridwan Adhami.  "The message I wanted to convey," says Ahmedto al Arabiya – is that an American Muslim is not less than anyone else. A Muslim is not even less American than someone else. These things are not mutually exclusive ". Nowadays though, constantly facing discrimination continues to freelance, "every time I go back in the United States after a trip abroad. When through customs at the airport, I always stop for questioning on secondary issues, although my American passport clearly states that this is my place of birth. I know certainly that it has definitely to do with my name, Munira Ahmed ".
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 20:23

The truth is most elected officials do not keep their promises and news agents fuel dissension.
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Post by carolhathaway on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 21:05

Ladybug,
I often read comments saying 'At least he keeps his promises!'

But there are laws. And he can't ignore them all.
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 21:27

Carol, those comments are fueled through news agents.  Example the "wall", no news agent asked about our other three borders and illegal immigrants from countries other than Mexico.  

There are laws and I have confidence in the checks and balances within our system of government.
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Post by Donnamarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 21:36

No President has ever been able to keep all their promises.  Congress palys a huge role in whether a President's policies can be enacted.    IMO there is nothing honorable about Trump being able to keep his promises.  He's doing a pretty good job though of causing major disruptions to our democracy.

By the way it seems that a few months ago then Governor Pence tried to block Syrians from settling in Indiana by attempting to block aid for their resettlement.  He failed.  Judges overturned his decision.  The new Governor of Indiana, who was endorsed by Pence, chose a more humanitarian path and is welcoming them to his state.  It seems birds of a feather flock together ....


Last edited by Donnamarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 21:38; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct spelling)
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Post by LizzyNY on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 21:45

ladybug - The point has been made many times that most immigrants - legal and illegal - enter the US by air. Like most other facts, Trump just chooses to ignore it.
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 21:57

Canada is also open to receiving immigrants including Muslims.
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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 22:03

No one of course in this current administration has said that in fact all the security agencies in the US are already extremely good and among the best in the world and connect with the UK's and other similar countries all the time day and night.

Donald Trump is playing to the fear factor in my view (and also ticking the box which says I promised this).

A headline on the BBC News website says 'Amateur Hour in the White House?' and and there's a brilliant article in the New Yorker headed 'A Dangerously Isolated President' Can't give you the link because you have to subscribe.Sorry.

Just watched Sean Spicer say to the White House correspondents a couple of interesting things: That whoever helped with the Holocaust Day Memorial statement was 'someone whose own grandparents were affected by it'. Led me to wonder if that was Jared Kushner. 

Also never mentioned those people who were delayed leaving the US, the border controls who ignored the legal judgement,  and the fact that some of those held up or turned away were Christians and in some instances Yazidi Christians many of whom have suffered enough. On the other hand nobody challenged him on those things either

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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 22:08

LizzyNY wrote:ladybug - The point has been made many times that most immigrants - legal and illegal - enter the US by air. Like most other facts, Trump just chooses to ignore it.
Lizzy I have not heard this point from news pundits, in the recent "wall" controversy.  They talk about the protesters, the cost, and who will and will not pay for it, all of these points fuel dissension.  Practical things like the fact we have 3 other borders and illegal immigrants from countries other than Mexico have not been brought into the conversation.

President Trump as well as MAINSTREAM NEWS choose to ignore it.


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Post by Donnamarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 22:09

Vian Dakhil, a Yazidi human rights champion, has been banned from coming to Washington, D.C. to receive the Lantos Human Rights Prize at the U.S. Capitol on February 8th.  The prize is given in honor of Tom Lantos, a Holocaust survivor who championed human rights while serving in the U.S. Congress. Katrina Lantos Swett, his daughter, said "He exemplified how America is strengthened and enriched by immigrants and refugees. I assure you he is turning in his grave at this".

So does this ban mean Nadia Murad is also banned from entering our country?
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Post by party animal - not! on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 22:29

It could be, unless she now has a dual passport from Germany (where she now lives) or the UK.

Still find it interesting that the countries not touched by this programme are as Lizzy said the ones where the Trumps do business.

And now he intends to bring for the Supreme Court judge appointment forward to tomorrow.

Ooh, I wonder if this is to distract from all  this mess??

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Post by it's me on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 23:02

Terrorist will have even more reasons to attack
More fuel to hatred  Mad
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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 23:28

it's me wrote:Terrorist will have even more reasons to attack
More fuel to hatred  Mad
Why are they attacking in the first place?
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Post by it's me on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 23:30

Hate
For western ppl
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Post by annemarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 23:31

Donald dumb didn't think this threw he has made a mess of this and will never admit he was wrong.

This woman's husband can't come to the U.S and he will miss the birth of their child.

http://people.com/human-interest/pregnant-missouri-nurse-give-birth-alone-while-husband-is-stuck-due-trump-travel-ban/

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Post by ladybugcngc on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 23:32

it's me wrote:Hate
For western ppl
Interesting...
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Post by Donnamarie on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 23:57

party animal - not! wrote:It could be, unless she now has a dual passport from Germany (where she now lives) or the UK.

Still find it interesting that the countries not touched by this programme are as Lizzy said the ones where the Trumps do business.

And now he intends to bring for the Supreme Court judge appointment forward to tomorrow.

Ooh, I wonder if this is to distract from all  this mess??

PAN, it has been said that every new controversy/action Trump creates is a distraction from the last ...  who knows how his warped mind operates.  When is the last time the press reported on the Russian hacking.  Part of the problem is that there is so much crap to cover that it is hard to cover it all.

Many news agencies are making connections between the countries not on the banned list and Trump's businesses.  And his people respond to the inquires suggesting that maybe the ban should be broadened.  Hahaha.
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Post by LizzyNY on Tue 31 Jan 2017, 00:20

ladybugcngc wrote:
LizzyNY wrote:ladybug - The point has been made many times that most immigrants - legal and illegal - enter the US by air. Like most other facts, Trump just chooses to ignore it.
Lizzy I have not heard this point from news pundits, in the recent "wall" controversy.  They talk about the protesters, the cost, and who will and will not pay for it, all of these points fuel dissension.  Practical things like the fact we have 3 other borders and illegal immigrants from countries other than Mexico have not been brought into the conversation.

President Trump as well as MAINSTREAM NEWS choose to ignore it.
Ladybug - Where do you think I heard it? Do you think I have access to some secret underground news source? Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed. Maybe you just missed it.
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Post by annemarie on Tue 31 Jan 2017, 00:37

Yes Lizzy that is true illegals come in by air Trump is simply playing to his audience his fans.

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Post by annemarie on Tue 31 Jan 2017, 01:37

Acting Attorney General tells Justice Department Not To defend Trump's Immigration Ban.

http://time.com/4654533/acting-attorney-general-sally-yates-immigration-ban-donald-trump/?xid=homepage

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