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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 20:49

Trump is the biggest idiot , how are you going to owe china and talk crap about them at the same time.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 21:56

PAN - They're quoting the same Washington Post article that Daily Kos posted on Friday. I'm glad to see that it's getting noticed and I hope it goes viral.

I'm really curious to see how/if he'll divest himself and if he'll divest himself from ALL his business interests or only the ones where he is the sole or primary owner. As long as his family is involved in his businesses I don't see how he can be considered divested or free from the possibility of outside influence.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 22:11

Just glanced at the Kos live blog on Sessions, who's not prepared to guarantee that he will NOT prosecute journalists.

Meryl was right!

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Tue 10 Jan 2017, 23:04

Sessions presents himself well, and the Republicans have spent the day singing his praises as a fair and decent man but there have been too many questions to which he couldn't, or wouldn't, give a definitive answer. I only hope the people questioning him have more insight into his character and Congressional connections to better gauge what would influence his decisions  if he's confirmed.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 00:49

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-russia-compromising-information-intelligence-report-us-election-hack-a7520576.html

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 00:59

PAN you beat me to it.  You are always on top of the breaking news!

This story is hot right now on the political shows tonight.  One can only imagine if the intel is good what kind of personal dirt they have on Trump.  Unbelievable.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 01:06

Here's another report........incredible that this is a week ahead of the Inauguration....Comey is without doubt dragging his feet in my opinion

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts

And in the same paper revelations about Manafort's connections in Ukraine with the president who had connections with Russia and was ousted........Crikey.

Thank God for investigative journalism

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 01:40

The real issue isn't that they have the info and didn't use it, but when and how will they use it in the future - and what will Trump do for them to keep what they know private?
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 02:08

Question: Is Russia blackmailing Trump?


Interesting Twitterpage here..............

https://twitter.com/Evan_McMullin?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 04:45

Everything stinks around Trump.  And he hasn't even taken office yet ...

Intelligence officials who dropped this two page intel report on Trump in that meeting last Friday were sending a very clear message ...  Don't mess with us.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Fingersandtoes on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 06:17

I'm so confused. What is the pee-gate? I'm reading so many disturbing and scary reports right now...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 06:23

I also don't understand why these informations weren't used by the Democrats. It's obvious why the Republicans didn't use them, but it had been a clear answer to Trump's accusations to Hillary Clinton.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 13:55

Carolhathaway - Apparently they didn't have the information in time to use it - or didn't want to release it until they checked it out. If the FBI had it and didn't release it, that opens a whole other can of worms for Congress to deal with.

Trump is calling it "fake news" and whining that it isn't true because the Russians said so. And don't we all believe them more than our own intelligence agencies? Jackass still hasn't realized that if you put enough lies out there pretty soon people don't know what's true and it comes back to bite you in the ass. I hope someone out there has pictures.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 14:54

Lizzy,
that's the only explanation, I guess.
But it is a fact that double standards during this election were applied...If HC had said half of the things / lies DT said or done half of the things he did, she had been severaly criticized.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Fingersandtoes on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 15:35

The reports still aren't verified, but they were taken seriously enough, that both Trump and Obama got breefings a week ago. Buzzfeed thought f it, wikilesks can leak unverified info, so we will do the same, let the people decide.

I'm absolutely sure there is a lot of stuff on trump, I hope it all gets leaked. The press needs to step up and change their style.
Freekin teenvogue is doing the hardcore stuff now, how sad is that for the state of the press.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by fava on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 15:44

Well, there is one person who knows if it is possible there is audio or video of the hotel room behavior claimed in the report......

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 15:58

All this should have come out during the election, now to me it is too little too late. The press should have done their job. 

The people that voted for him simply think he is being lied on and bullied by those who don't like him.

As a matter of fact some female reporter said that what Meryl  did was why he won the election and why he will
win another term.

Some how I don't doubt the room was bugged this is Russia after all. Leopards don't change their spots.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Fingersandtoes on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 16:22

It's OK to call Hilary every name in the book. It's OK to trash Obama for years. But to call out trump on his actions is so wrong. Gmab! What makes him untouchable? 

Trump won mostly because 'too PC world' was becoming too difficult for people to handle. Seeing minority groups get fair treatment and same rights as the majority groups has started to feel too threatening. They created some 'just like us' image of millionaire celebrity trump, in their minds, and put blinders on to all of his disgusting faults.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 16:28

He is still harping on that damn wall, which can't be built physically impossible you have to take people's land and go through mountains. He has built hotels and doesn't know this can't happen. 

Also it is known that the majority of illegals come here on planes and boats , it is not Mexican's coming over .

All of this info is on the internet all people have to do is read to see the truth. They are so blinded by this idiots promises they don't care.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 16:35

If anyone's interested, he's on air right now in his first press conference whining about the leak and kissing his own ass. Turned it on to see if he had something enlightening to say. Turned it off because his self-promotion made me sick! The man is delusional and we are screwed! facepalm
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Fingersandtoes on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 16:55

After Charming Obama this is just wrong.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Sevens on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 17:01

Lizzy if all the links between Trump and Russia were verified, I could understand your frustration as a American citizen and personally feel sorry for this mess.
How could this happen? I mean the US used to interfere with other small countries elections, and now Russia could blackmail a president-elect? Ridiculous, even humiliating in a way.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by fava on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 17:31

annemarie wrote:All this should have come out during the election, now to me it is too little too late. The press should have done their job. 

The people that voted for him simply think he is being lied on and bullied by those who don't like him.

As a matter of fact some female reporter said that what Meryl  did was why he won the election and why he will
win another term.

Some how I don't doubt the room was bugged this is Russia after all. Leopards don't change their spots.
The press did do their job.  They had this information for several months.  See Richard Engel on this, same with Wash Post and NYT.  They were unable to verify anything so did not publish.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by fava on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 17:33

Trump is a total hypocrite.  He embraced totally "fake news" about Hillary from sources such as Breitbart and others.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 17:38

Responding to Sevens, Russia could blackmail Trump because Trump is stupid and ignorant of foreign affairs.  He should have never made himself so vulnerable.  When he travelled to Russia in 2013 was he conscious of the fact that he needed to watch every step he took? Was he aware that he was being watched?  This is humiliating.  Even if the accusations aren't true.  The fact that they could be because we understand how nefarious Trump has been in the past is really sad.

He tweeted this morning that he has no connections to Russia.  He has connections up to his neck.  He continues to lie through his tweets.  He's not going to divest his business holdings.   

There was absolutely a double standard during the election and it continues.  This is just a f**ked up mess!
But the press is going to very, very busy for quite some time.  Media outlets are going to need many more investigative reporters to cover the Trumpster and all his shenanigans.


Last edited by Donnamarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 17:44; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added text)
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 20:28

Sevens wrote:Lizzy if all the links between Trump and Russia were verified, I could understand your frustration as a American citizen and personally feel sorry for this mess.
How could this happen? I mean the US used to interfere with other small countries elections, and now Russia could blackmail a president-elect? Ridiculous, even humiliating in a way.
Sevens, it doesn't matter if the links between them are verified and it isn't a question of how could this happen. Governments spy on each other. They have since time began and I guess they always will. It's not a surprise. It is, however, frowned upon and the goal is to get as much information as you can without getting caught, because once you're caught trouble starts. It's a game with serious consequences.

What is upsetting here is the way Trump is handling it. He doesn't get it. He thinks if they send him a bottle of Stoli and a couple of hookers it means they like him and they'll never do anything to screw him. WRONG! but he's too naive, stupid, ignorant or immature to understand. He's a pawn and they will use him to their advantage in any way they can. He's such a totally delusional fool I almost feel sorry for him. He is so in over his head.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 21:44

This is how he plans to separate himself from his businesses.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/11/donald-trump-business-separation/

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 03:56

Trump is still not severing ties.  His team says if he were to full divest he would lose millions of dollars.  Well that's the sacrifice he should have been willing to make before planning to run for office.  But like all things Trump he thinks he can get away with anything.

I saw clips of his press conference today.  The pundits' consensus was that he was in his element and had control of the entire event. And from what I saw I'd have to agree.  He sounded like an autocrat.  It was painful to watch.  I don't know how the press will hold Trump accountable for what he says and does unless they get tough with him and push back on his false accusations.

He ranted on about the "disinformation" of this dossier that was leaked by  Buzzfeed.  He called it fake news.
This coming from a man who spent like 5 years peddling a fake news story about our President not being born in the U.S.  He peddled in fake news during his entire campaign.  Not one journalist called him out on this today.  That's wrong.


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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 06:42

Donnamarie wrote:He ranted on about the "disinformation" of this dossier that was leaked by  Buzzfeed.  He called it fake news.
This coming from a man who spent like 5 years peddling a fake news story about our President not being born in the U.S.  He peddled in fake news during his entire campaign.  Not one journalist called him out on this today.  That's wrong.
Donna,
he got away with his own fake news for years, was never taken responsibility for it and was elected although / because of his fake news and lies. Why should he change? It has worked.

By the way:
I don't trust Putin. He's worked for the KGB, the Russian Secret Service, for years, serving in Germany. There had been fake news about a German girl with Russian roots who lives in a Berlin township with many Russian immigrants, and she was said to have been raped by a refugee. This caused a lot of trouble since it was only reported on facebook, our ambassador in Moscow was called to Putin for a report and there were reports in Russian newspapers and on Russian tv. Our police said that nobody ever pressed charges. In the end the mother of this girl was found, and she admitted that her daughter simply ran away with her boyfriend - which wasn't covered in the same news which had reported about that before.. But after that during the next federal elections, this still was a big issue (there were campaigns in Russian by the right-wing parties), and I personally think that these fake news were brought up by Putin. IMO it is a campaign to de-stabilize our society and Putin is a very dangerous man who simply wants to make his country great again. But maybe I'm wrong and this all was just by chance, who knows...
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Katiedot on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 11:15

Sevens wrote:How could this happen? I mean the US used to interfere with other small countries elections
Ha! That really made me laugh because I hadn't thought of it that way before. True, the US government thought (and still thinks) that it has the right to dictate the outcome of any election of any country - and forcible change any regime it doesn't like - but then really gets it knickers in a knot when another country does the same!
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:03

There are too many pots calling kettles here. I don't think there's a government anywhere that hasn't meddled in another country's business.

Is there ever a legitimate reason to do so? Is it ever justified? Are there some kinds of interference that are more acceptable than others? Is rendering humanitarian aid more acceptable than political interference if it has the same effect? (Ex: George's attempts to aid S.Sudan contributed to the formation of a new country. Isn't that interference? Why should it be more acceptable than something more direct?)

IMO it's all a matter of which side of the fence you're on.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:09

Maybe the difference there is that he did that with the country's consent.

You are not meddling in a country if they ask you to do so/help.......and other forms of diplomacy.......

A very sad example: when 30 Brits were killed on a  Tunisian beach, the Tunis government asked for counter intelligence help from Britain. They admitted they were struggling. After all they had a very long and porous border with Libya and simply to man that takes some doing...........

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 16:53

PAN - As I said, it all depends which side of the fence you're on. The people who ask for help wouldn't call it meddling, but the people they are fighting/fleeing would probably not agree.  Would Bashir and his supporters think outside interference was justified? Would Hussein? Would Putin in Ukraine?

Understand I'm playing devil's advocate here and this doesn't represent my personal feelings, but it does annoy me that US is being ridiculed for doing the same thing every government has done forever. And Sevens - China certainly can't claim innocence in this arena, so don't gloat.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 17:10

Senate has made it's first vote toward dismantling Obama care which by the way is not the name of the health insurance. It's actual name is aca.

http://people.com/politics/senate-makes-first-vote-toward-dismantling-obamacare-in-late-night-session/

They have no plan but want to have millions lose health care.


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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 17:13

Totally understand and agree with you, Lizzy. We could argue the same about the UK and colonisation........and to be perfectly honest if ever there was a time when the world needed diplomats it is now. A shame many of them have majored in trade and embassies turned into trade missions instead.

I see that Mattis and Pompeo have given completely difference and considered opinions from their future President at their hearings...............

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Sevens on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 17:24

I'm not gloating Lizzy, as we know very little information about how our government is meddling things internationally, but I don't believe America could interfere our presidency cause there's no actual election. We don't even know how exactly our president is selected! Maybe your intelligence agencies have collected more information about our government than what has been published online here.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 18:13

Sevens wrote:I'm not gloating Lizzy, as we know very little information about how our government is meddling We actually don't know how exactly our president is selected! Maybe your intelligence agencies have collected more information about our government than what has been published online here.
Sevens,
I'm pretty sure that that's right...

The advantage - or disadvantage - of an independant press is that they can choose their issues and have own investigation teams to find out about it. But they have to trust their sources and therefore have to choose them carefully. And it has to fit into the owner's agenda.
So they have a lot of power.

By the way: I just watched 'Spotlight', quite a tough issue...
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 19:41

The former MI6 officer who has the dossier on Trump has had to go to ground - the Russians are apparently stalking his house and have threatened him.

He was part of the team who found out about the high levels of corruption in international football as a result of which Sepp Blatter and many others had to resign

He's also apparently having to bring up three children on his own because his wife died of liver schirrosis

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 20:44

Sevens wrote:I'm not gloating Lizzy, as we know very little information about how our government is meddling things internationally, but I don't believe America could interfere our presidency cause there's no actual election. We don't even know how exactly our president is selected! Maybe your intelligence agencies have collected more information about our government than what has been published online here.
Well, when it comes to the whole "intelligence" arena (spying - let's call it what it is) I don't think any regular citizen has a clue what their government is really doing. But when it comes to who is running the country and the rules they're supposed to follow, I think we have a pretty good idea who and what they are.

Does it bother you that you have no actual election and you don't know exactly how your president is selected?
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 21:25

LizzyNY wrote:
Sevens wrote:I'm not gloating Lizzy, as we know very little information about how our government is meddling things internationally, but I don't believe America could interfere our presidency cause there's no actual election. We don't even know how exactly our president is selected! Maybe your intelligence agencies have collected more information about our government than what has been published online here.
Well, when it comes to the whole "intelligence" arena (spying - let's call it what it is) I don't think any regular citizen has a clue what their government is really doing. But when it comes to who is running the country and the rules they're supposed to follow, I think we have a pretty good idea who and what they are.

Does it bother you that you have no actual election and you don't know exactly how your president is selected?
Lizzy,
my husband's relatives lived in the GDR, East Germany. They did have elections, where the leading party was elected with a majority of 99%. They never questioned that, they didn't know anything else. The older ones knew the Hitler regime without fair elections as well, and we tend to be content with what we know. Of course, up to 1989 there was no internet, and since people weren't allowed to watch West German tv, read West German newspapers or go to other than socialistic countries and the government had spies everywhere, it was a very different situation to now - maybe except for tge people in North Corea...

So, after the re-unification, the people who grew up in the GDR had to learn about democracy, and that's a process. I grew up in West Germany, and for me it was always normal that you can choose your candidate and your party, so for me it was strange to hear about this process. I always took it for granted.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by What Would He Say on Thu 12 Jan 2017, 23:25

Sevens wrote:http://www.miaopai.com/show/omRlvuoGvrfzPwdCOjnv2g__.htm
This is interesting...Trump met with Jack Ma discussing about small business. 
Highly doubt that before Trump meets with our president and addresses many of the political controversies he recently provoked about Taiwan, the South China Sea or North Kocrea etc, we could build any grounds for any sort of "small business" trades between the US and China. President Xi is very tough on those issues and has been determined to recapture Taiwan, and there's at least of 50% of products being sold on Jack Ma's Alibaba platforms are fake, poorly quality ones, with almost free delivery. It's definitely a double-edged sword, and I'm not sure whether Trump and the Americans could realize the reality here. We pay the delivery man much, much lower with more hours to extra work&very little if any bonus.



@Sevens....Thank you this is so interesting....I saw Trump answering question's by the golden elevator (less than a week ago) ...I thought that was Jack Ma with him, in front of the press....followed your link thats IT....

Last I heard Jack Ma was starting him own BIG delivery firm, (well his and China's 50/50)....

Trump has pulled some rabbits out of the hat....If he leaves NOW, things will never be the same.....I have a strange/bad feeling....the inauguration might as well be light years away.....This will be the longest week.....
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Sevens on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 14:48

LizzyNY wrote:
Sevens wrote:I'm not gloating Lizzy, as we know very little information about how our government is meddling things internationally, but I don't believe America could interfere our presidency cause there's no actual election. We don't even know how exactly our president is selected! Maybe your intelligence agencies have collected more information about our government than what has been published online here.
Well, when it comes to the whole "intelligence" arena (spying - let's call it what it is) I don't think any regular citizen has a clue what their government is really doing. But when it comes to who is running the country and the rules they're supposed to follow, I think we have a pretty good idea who and what they are.

Does it bother you that you have no actual election and you don't know exactly how your president is selected?
It bothers me a bit, yet considering we've got only one major party, what's the point in elections? Communist Party has over 60 million members across the country, whilst joining the party definitely means an personal honor(which I haven't acquired). A candidate from the Communist Party will win the presidency anyway. 
Since we don't have the fun of elections, it's been a popular trend to observe and discuss your elections. I have to argue with the enormous amount of Trump fans here on nearly every controversy. It baffles me that they still think Trump will be a greater leader than Hillary, especially supporting his claims on Muslims. They must want to be a white American in their dreams.
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Fri 13 Jan 2017, 14:55

That dream will never happen it never existed in the first place.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 11:36

Donald dumb has apparently said, he would lift Russsian sanctions if the Kremlin helped U.S terrorism. And he is ready to meet with Putin.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by oldweston on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:02

Donnamarie wrote:Responding to Sevens, Russia could blackmail Trump because Trump is stupid and ignorant of foreign affairs.  He should have never made himself so vulnerable.  When he travelled to Russia in 2013 was he conscious of the fact that he needed to watch every step he took? Was he aware that he was being watched?  This is humiliating.  Even if the accusations aren't true.  The fact that they could be because we understand how nefarious Trump has been in the past is really sad.

He tweeted this morning that he has no connections to Russia.  He has connections up to his neck.  He continues to lie through his tweets.  He's not going to divest his business holdings.   

There was absolutely a double standard during the election and it continues.  This is just a f**ked up mess!
But the press is going to very, very busy for quite some time.  Media outlets are going to need many more investigative reporters to cover the Trumpster and all his shenanigans.
Working of keeping up with the reporting is exhausting and ...profoundly frightening.

On the role of the pivotal role of the press - I have recently subscribed to the NY Times and the Guardian. I will likely expand this list. If you haven't done so already please consider. In order to do this work the press need this support. Just my two cents :-)

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 14:16

It is scary to think so many people don't get the damage this man can do to our country and it's people.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 14:34

Oldweston - Sometimes the simplest ideas are the most effective. Print media do much of the investigative reporting we need but they are struggling to stay afloat in this digital world. Subscribing to one or more newspapers or news magazines - or even their digital versions - will help fund them and keep them going. Brilliant, simple idea! Thumbs up!
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 18:28

party animal - not! wrote:The former MI6 officer who has the dossier on Trump has had to go to ground - the Russians are apparently stalking his house and have threatened him.

He was part of the team who found out about the high levels of corruption in international football as a result of which Sepp Blatter and many others had to resign

He's also apparently having to bring up three children on his own because his wife died of liver schirrosis

Wanted to follow up on your comments PAN.  From what I read this British officer has a very good reputation.  Although we don't know if what he uncovered from his sources is true I have to say that what's playing out looks very suspicious.  Why would the Russians feel the need to threaten him or worse if at least some of the allegations aren't true?  After all his years as an intel officer he felt compelled to disappear makes me think that he has revealed a bit more factual info on the Trumpster than our officials can verify ... as of yet.  I saw a clip of his business partner being interviewed and he was legitimately scared.  You could see it in his face.  

Whether Trump is guilty of any of these nefarious acts with Russia he has played it out all wrong.  He should be out front on supporting an investigation into the Russian hacking.  He should be calling the hacking of our election deplorable and state he won't stand for it.   He should say that regardless who won the election this illegal activity will not be tolerated and he will support appropriate sanctions to send a strong message to Putin.  Even if he is in bed with Putin he needs to at least act the part.  But because he is so insecure over his election win and because he is so thin skinned he has left himself wide open to suspicion.  And that's what's happening right now.  The press will not let go of this story.  Thankfully.


Last edited by Donnamarie on Sat 14 Jan 2017, 18:30; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct text)
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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 01:59

Well, here's a follow-up which is spreading around the world......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-russia-dossier-file-investigation-hacking-christopher-steele-mi6-a7526901.html

And like you, Old Canada, I too am now subscribing to NYT and Guardian....

Who was it who said I like to start arguments to stay in power?

Hence the phrase 'Divide and Rule' I guess......

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 03:08

Amazing isn't it, they brought up Hillary's emails just days before the election. Yet, said nothing about Trump.

I think the man that Washington would prefer to be President is right there and when the time comes he will be President.

I have thought that since the theater incident and Donald dumb demanding the apology, and Pence saying it didn't bother him. 

Who was the adult and mature in this situation?

If the guy who predicted his win is correct impeachment will come.

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Re: The Serious Side

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