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The Serious Side

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Wed Jul 06 2016, 22:35

The FBI Director's judgment is being called into question because there are many assholes in the Congress who having nothing else to do now that the umpteenth Benghazi investigation has been put to rest.
They need a new calling.


Last edited by Donnamarie on Wed Jul 06 2016, 22:37; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct spelling.)

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Wed Jul 06 2016, 23:36

Mad Apparently they haven't wasted enough taxpayer money. Maybe they think if they keep "investigating" they'll get a result they like better. Someone should remind them that the definition of insanity  is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 I love this country, but I hate our politicians. Considering the priveleges they enjoy on our dime, we deserve a hell of a lot better.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Thu Jul 07 2016, 13:15

Coming to this late, but just to clarify (possibly) a couple of things in the fun game we call politics.

Sky News was always going to be on the leave side of Brexit, because their owner is one Rupert Murdoch who decided that was going to be how to vote. 

He also owns the most read newspapers in this country - and much of Hollywood, Fox etc.

And he's also influential in the US election because his investors would rather he
didn't knock or castigate one Donald Trump........

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Thu Jul 07 2016, 13:33

Well Murdoch is definitely backing Trump. And Trump has given Murdoch a gift with the increase in ratings for Fox News. The Murdoch owned New York Post is endorsing Trump but The Wall Street Journal is not.
I think Murdoch wins either way. Even if Trump loses Murdoch's news outlets will have Hillary to beat up on for at least 4 years.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Fri Jul 08 2016, 14:06

Im very saddened by the events in our country over the last three days. We had two African American men killed unnecessarily at the hands of police officers. Now overnight we have had 5 police officers and 7 wounded by a sniper in Dallas, Texas. Race, guns and inadequate police training played a part in these tradegies.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Fri Jul 08 2016, 14:27

Your right Donnamarie, but the police will never change , to do this would mean they are wrong and admitting
their wrong doing.

What happened in Texas was just as wrong as the killing of those two innocent men. We are all human and every life on this planet matters and should be respected.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Fri Jul 08 2016, 20:53

Those shootings in the US were horrible. It's so sad, those police officers who were shot in Dallas, weren't the ones who shot the two African Americans, but seem to have been shot as a sort of 'revenge'. All those killings were so unnecessary - as every killing is...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Tue Jul 12 2016, 19:55

Bernie has endorsed Hillary.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Jul 12 2016, 20:56

annemarie wrote:Bernie has endorsed Hillary.


It's about time. Seems like Bernie got what he wanted from her as far as the progressive platform he has been pushing. More than I thought she (the party) would agree to.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Wed Jul 13 2016, 19:32

I just read that the situation in South Sudan is getting worse, the UN security counsil has a meeting today. Our government has asked all Germans to leave the country.
I wonder what George thinks about this since he's put so much effort in it...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Wed Jul 13 2016, 20:39

Carolhathaway, I was wondering the same thing. The US government is doing the same as yours - evacuating all non-essential personnel from South Sudan. Things must be really bad for them to do something so drastic.

I'm sure George is well aware of what's going on and I wonder if he doesn't get discouraged and feel that all the hard work he and his friends have done has been for nothing. The tribal in-fighting that's tearing the country apart has existed forever and it doesn't seem like it will end any time soon.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Wed Jul 13 2016, 21:39

Lizzy,
that's so tiring and discouraging...
And there seems to be no perspective for the people in this country / region, just horrible...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Wed Jul 13 2016, 21:42

I just watched our news on TV:
Theresa May is the new Prime Minister in the UK - and Boris Johnson is the new Secretary of State!

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Thu Jul 14 2016, 02:18

carolhathaway wrote:I just watched our news on TV:
Theresa May is the new Prime Minister in the UK - and Boris Johnson is the new Secretary of State!

It's amazing how fast it happened! Cameron is gone ..... but Larry the cat is still there.


I would think George is probably very disappointed and saddened by the recent developments in South Sudan but I don't think he is surprised. His work and relationship with John Prendergast, with the Enough project, has probably prepared him for the possibility that instability would erupt at some point. South Sudan is the youngest country in the world and these types of conflicts and violence are not surprising. He knows that both the President and Vice President are corrupt and looking out more for themselves and their fortunes than for the civilians. It's is awful what is happening. Not for the leaders sadly. For South Sudan's citizens. Hopefully it will calm down soon.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Thu Jul 14 2016, 23:52

There has been a terrible incident in Nice tonight on the Promenade des Anglais where a lorry reportedly drove into the crowd celebrating Bastille Day.......gunshots, hostages in hotels reported............

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Fri Jul 15 2016, 14:08

This is just horrible
I just watched the news. 84 people were killed, many are injured. I'll never understand those assassins...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Fri Jul 15 2016, 15:37

I understand them. They are cowards, and unevolved emotionally, intellectually, and culturally, so that the only answer to their perceived injustices lies in the basest of reactions: violence.

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the cowardice of perverting it for cover. If we all became Muslim today, these cowards would find another 'reason' to kill. Because that is all they are capable of recognizing as the path to power -- and their definition of 'power' (dominance) is unevolved as well.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Fri Jul 15 2016, 18:19

All these innocent people killed for no reason it is just awful it makes no sense.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Fri Jul 15 2016, 18:41

Well this guy was no terrorist as far as they can tell he was a disgruntled divorced truck driver. His wife's relatives say he was drug user and had a criminal record. It seems like he may have wanted to do something to be remembered as a lot of these crazy people do.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Fri Jul 15 2016, 19:48

Yep annemarie, that's what I heard too. Sounds like from what we know so far that there was no direct link between this man and any terrorist group. Not unlike the man who killed people in the Orlando bar last month who really had no affiliation with any known group. He even shouted his allegiance to ISIS and Hezbollah ... two very different groups with different ideologies. These men were confused and unstable people who chose to use terrorist actions to get attention.

Way2, your description is right on point. They ARE cowards and their hate has nothing to do with religion. They cloak themselves in the name of Allah to justify their violence. They are deceiving themselves and their ignorant and weak followers. But unfortunately their impact is being felt in so many parts of the world.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Fri Jul 15 2016, 22:57

A coup happening right now in Turkey. Unbelievable.
Rumor at this moment has it that Erdogan is looking for asylum in Germany.

Trump must be looking up the word "coup" in the dictionary scratch

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by party animal - not! on Fri Jul 15 2016, 23:10

Hilarious, Donnamarie - but tragic 'cos it might be true..........

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 09:06

I just watched TV news. Erdogan said that he has the control and that those who started the coup are terrorists. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 09:09

Donna,
I'm not sure that we would accept Erdogan as a refugee but would love to see him treated like every ordinary refugee Laughing Laughing
It worries me that now Erdogan even has arguments to strenghten his political power, he wants a new constitution which guarantees him much more power.


Last edited by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 09:11; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added text)

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 09:47

About the assassination in Nice:
I just had the time to read a few newspapers online.Immediately after this attack the French president and the Secretary of the Interior called it an islamistic terror attack. I don't know if they knew things they didn't tell the public, but I just read that the assassin's father talked to journalists and told them that his son wasn't religious at all, wasn't a muslim and had mental problems. 

Of course this doesn't excuse what he did. I just wanted to mention that it's not always as easy as it may seem. If anybody else had done that, somebody without a migrant background, they would talk about violent parents, mobbing at school, traumatizing happenings and maybe the wish to kill himself by being killed by the police. I remember that this usually happened after school attacks. Of course France is traumatized already. But prejudgement doesn't help as well IMO...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 10:15

The fail even called him a terrorist while reporting and saying he wasn't a terrorist. The press and people in power need to wai tfor the facts  before making any comments.Especially in events like this when a whole race of people will be blamed as Trump of course did.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 10:43

Annemarie,
I heard a quote by Newt Gingrich (didn't know that he's still doing politics, hadn't heard from him for ages) who goes even further than Trump. 
"Every person here who us of a Muslim background should be trsted to determine whether he or she believes in Shariah, a legal code based on the Quran or other Islamic scruptures. If they do, they should be deported - even if they are U.S. citizens. Anyone who visits any websites favoring ISIS  or other terrorist groups, should be guilty for a felony, and they should go to jail!"

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 16 2016, 11:45

carolhathaway - Welcome to the land of free speech, where any idiot can say anything. Unfortunately, Newt Gingrich is still around and was even being considered by Trump to be his running mate. I don't know much about Pence, the man he did choose, but he can't be as bad as Gingrich - or Trump, for that matter.

I am wondering, however, if any of the terror groups have claimed to be behind this latest horror. Maybe there is some behind the scenes information that we don't know about. I don't mean that this was a terror attack - just that some group may be taking advantage of the situation to get attention.

I don't know. Some days it just seems like the whole world is going to hell. Crying or Very sad

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by it's me on Sat Jul 16 2016, 12:06

Right !

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 12:51

Lizzy, going I think we are there and unfortunately it is only going to get worse. I hope for a miracle but that would take man changing the way he thinks and we know that is not gonna happen.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 13:10

Lizzy,
you're right, usually there's somebody who says: "It's us who recruted him and told him whaf to do!" So I just checked our news. They say that ISIS claimed the responsibility for this, but experts doubt the verification of this letter because it contains no knowledge of the acting, just said that 'the assassin was an ISIS soldier'.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by What Would He Say on Sat Jul 16 2016, 13:45

I don't know...but....

In the old days here and UK....the IRA would claim responsability before it ever reached the news... Always, everytime.....

Bataclan was the same, and Tunisia....the claim came sometime after....by that I mean 24+ hours....old days it was at the very moment, if not minutes after a phone call to police or news/BBC claiming what had just happened....or in the most awful cases the 7 minute warning which is awful, a terror in it's own right.....

That was in the day of phone boxes, the public telephone....

I wonder if it is the sweeping change of social media has some pull....Look no further than here....none of us know WHO are members.....or where from....

Might be ISIS have the same blindness....do they pump out the means of mass killing to whoever....and really not care how or who is the perpertraitor.....The killing of large groups of people by heave vehicles was first published by ISIS back 2 years ago, it was reported on the news....


Do they deliberately set out to "tempt" the unstable lone wolf....would that account for the late claim......And cause huge mental anquish for Goverments and it's people....because nobody knows the when or the how.....

I have long held the belief that the missing aircrafts last year....were in some way, a way we don't fully understand, their work....I have my own theory, too bizarre to print here....

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 14:07

WWHS,
I do remember what you talked about as well: the IRA or in Germany the RAF took the responsibility within minutes after an incident. And ISIS did so as well quite soon. I just read other news where the whole ISIS letter was texted (after having it translated, of course, my Arabic is not very good - if not saying not-existing...). 
They said that this man was an ISIS soldier who followed their cal, to kill people of the countries who fight ISIS. 
So we still don't know if the man really wanted to kill people for ISIS or not. But it's the easiest explanation of course...

Hey, there's something else Gingrich could put US citizens in prison or deport them: if they are able to speak or read Arabic! Because anybody who's interested in this language is suspicious I\'ve got an idea

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Sat Jul 16 2016, 14:29

Lizzy, Pence is an extreme conservative given to quoting the Bible during speeches -- but always seems to miss the 'love thy neighbor' and the 'least of these' parts. He is fervently anti-gay; cut funding to both Medicaid and Planned Parenthood; kicked thousands of families off of food stamps; and 'shifted' funding from public education at the same time he cut corporate taxes.

He didn't support Trump 's proposed Muslim ban, though. He reserves his hatred for domestic citizens.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 14:41

You know Trump would have to choose someone who agrees with him .

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 16:10

Right annemarie but also someone who won't overshadow Trump's own ego.  Hence Pence.  But Pence is a dull doozy of a guy.  Very unlike Christie or Gingrich who both are pretty bombastic themselves.

Last year Pence signed into law the Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act which ALLOWS discrimination against gays and lesbians.  And when Pence went on a national network show to defend the law his answers were completely inept.   Be interesting how effective he will be in defending everything Trump.

Pence is a very conservative right wing based republican who appeals to the religious right.  

I just read this morning that Pence signed into law this week legislation that bans women from getting abortions on the grounds of fetal genetic abnormalities, such as Downs Syndrome.  Indiana is the second state in our country to enact this type of law.  

Someone online made up a campaign poster.  Heading -Trump Pence with the emphasis on the TP.  Here in the states TP is short for toilet paper.  The line underneath "Make your whities even whiter".


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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 16:53

Wow,
so Pence seems to be a really nice guy Rolling Eyes
I hope you Americans know what to vote in November!

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 16 2016, 16:54

Thanks for the info on Pence, guys. I'm too fed up with our politics to check him out right now. Maybe after the conventions - if he's still on the ticket. The way Trump operates, who knows?

It has always bothered me that the religious right is so often on the wrong side of so many social issues. They seem always to be trying to control other people's behavior - people who obviously don't believe as they do. In their daily lives they probably have minimal contact with the people they dislike, so why do they care? I don't understand what they're afraid of.

Whatever happened to "live and let live"? Let the sinners sin and go to hell. If you go about your business and live according to your beliefs, IMO what other people do shouldn't affect you.

Rant over. Embarassed

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 17:02

The bible thumping religious fanatics don't believe in live and let live , they believe you have to live the way the say and the only way is the way the bible says. 

Yet a lot of them don't follow what it is they preach.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 16 2016, 17:13

And again I ask, "What are they so afraid of?". If they follow their beliefs and live the way they believe they should, then they'll go to Heaven - or wherever they think they'll go. If sinners and non-believers don't behave then they won't go to Heaven and there'll be more room for the believers. I don't see their problem.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Sat Jul 16 2016, 17:37

Lizzy, Lizzy, Lizzy. You're being way too rational, girl. You gotta let go of that when you're talking about Republicans.

These are people who hate 'big government' but want to pass laws that tell you who you can sleep with. They are 'pro-life' but also pro-torture and pro-death penalty. They detest welfare for needy individuals but go out of their way to make sure their business leaders feast on the public dime. They know their nominee would be a disaster for this country and the world, but they would choose him over a proven and competent leader and achiever just because she is a Democrat and a Clinton.

Rationality is a waste of cranial space when you're dealing with them. Let it go. Life will be much less stressful that way.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 17:49

Way2 and Lizzy,
you're so absolutely right about that!
It's just not so wasy to let them talk because they might lead your country...
But fortunately it's YOUR decision and choice...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by fava on Sat Jul 16 2016, 18:00

Way2Old4Dis wrote:Lizzy, Lizzy, Lizzy. You're being way too rational, girl. You gotta let go of that when you're talking about Republicans.

These are people who hate 'big government' but want to pass laws that tell you who you can sleep with. They are 'pro-life' but also pro-torture and pro-death penalty. They detest welfare for needy individuals but go out of their way to make sure their business leaders feast on the public dime. They know their nominee would be a disaster for this country and the world, but they would choose him over a proven and competent leader and achiever just because she is a Democrat and a Clinton.

Rationality is a waste of cranial space when you're dealing with them. Let it go. Life will be much less stressful that way.
In other words, hypocrites?  Well, they have found their true leader in Trump then.  Guess that is why his inconsistency and hypocrisy does not seem to matter to a scary percentage of Republicans.  Even if his tax returns were released and show him to be not as rich as he says, paying an incredibly low tax rate compared to average American worker and giving almost nothing to charity, I am not sure they would turn on him.  I hope that the actions of  those Republican politicians who are supporting him at the expense of their "convictions" are never forgotten and it comes back to bite them in the ass repeatedly in the future (yes I am talking about you Paul  Ryan and Chris Christie!  among others).

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 16 2016, 18:19

Wow! Didn't mean to open that can of Republican worms. I really was only thinking of the uber-conservative religious right. Every time I hear about another anti-abortion or anti-LGBT protest I think : Why are you so upset? If the person who believes abortion is ok has an abortion, then they're not raising a child who will disagree with you in the next generation. And if someone is gay, doesn't that mean they're less likely to have children who will then challenge your beliefs? And finally, what really makes me furious, is if you insist these children must be brought into this world why in hell aren't you doing a damn thing for them once they're born? Talk to me when you've adopted an unwanted child!

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by annemarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 18:27

Amen , Lizzy that is what I say you want these children born but you won't adopt them. 

Now that some gay couples are adopting they have something else to be morally offended by.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 18:38

LizzyNY wrote:And finally, what really makes me furious, is if you insist these children must be brought into this world why in hell aren't you doing a damn thing for them once they're born? Talk to me when you've adopted an unwanted child!
Not worthy Not worthy Not worthy
Lizzy,
you're great!
That's what I just thought but didn't post because  - well, didn't want to start another discussion...
Of course it would be great not to have abortions because there are no unwanted pregnancies, no handicaps parents fear they can't bear, no pregnancies due to rapes, no financial or private emergencies - well, I guess tgat would be called 'paradise'...
I have two handicapped children, do you know how often I've been asked - by complete strangers - if I couldn't have had an abortion because they are so expensive and will ever be? I've learned not to react to that but at first I felt the need to explain that they were born very premature and that's why they are handicapped. Do you know the answer of those people? I should have told  the doctors not to have artificial respiration or parenteral nutrition. That was the moment I stopped discussing and told them that I hope they made clear themselves that they will never need this intensive medical treatment...
And then I decided NOT to excuse it anymore, but I know that many parents of handicapped kids get the same question every day. And I wish everybody's decision would just be accepted...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by Donnamarie on Sat Jul 16 2016, 19:26

carolh, that must have been such a frustrating experience for you. It amazes me how morally judgmental people are. We would all be better off if people would quit criticizing others for decisions they make in their lives and instead focus on improving their own shortcomings. Having children and choosing not to have them is a very personal issue. It's the woman's decision with or without the support of a significant other. It should not be up to the state or anyone else to decide what is best for you or the fetus you are carrying.

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 16 2016, 21:39

Caolhathaway - Do people really ask you why you didn't abort your children?! How could anyone be so insensitive and cruel - let alone ill-mannered? How can they not understand that every child is a blessing, and that people like you who care for special needs children deserve all the praise in the world?

As a teacher, I worked for several years with Down Syndrome children at various levels of development. It was often difficult and frustrating, but at the end of the day I could go home and put "work" out of my mind. I was amazed at the incredible strength and devotion of their  parents who knew they had a lifetime of difficulty ahead of them but never gave up. And that's because these children bring joy and laughter and especially love into our lives, just like any other child .

Anyone who has a healthy child should thank whatever deity they believe in for their good fortune -and if they can't offer help to someone less fortunate, they should shut the hell up!

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by carolhathaway on Sat Jul 16 2016, 23:37

Donna and Lizzy,
thanks for your kind words!

Yes, it does happen! People really ask why you didn't have an abortion instead of giving birth to a handicapped child!
I think that, since we have access to a lot of prenatal diagnostics, many people think that it's possible to diagnose every disease. One of my cousins told me that she would have an amniocentesis when she was pregnant 'to make sure my child won't have any handicaps'. I didn't ask her what she would do if the result would be: "Your child has Down Syndrome" or "Your child has a heart defect" - "but we're only sure 50 %". Or if the child would have one of the many syndroms which are very difficult to diagnose.  Or what she and her husband would do if something would happen antenatal. Or ...

It's a really tough decision, but most gynaecologists recommend those diagnostics to cover themselves.
But this leads to abortions - most children with Down Syndrome aren't born anymore. It's not easy to have an abortion in Germany - you need to go to a pregnancy advise center to talk about it. But I heard from quite a few women who immediately after a diagnose - sometimes even just after a possible diagnose - are told: "I'll make an appointment for you at the clinic so you can have the abortiin as soon as possible" and then maybe get some pressure from their partner or family, that they see no alternative. I do understand every woman who decides for an abortion but think that sometimes it's an automatism. 
One of my cousins cousin has a daughter with Down Syndrome, and when they announced her birth and we heard about this disease, my father's reaction was: "Didn't they find out about that before?" I asked him about his intention, and he realized  what he had just said and was shocked by himself. But I do understand that: These generations didn't know anything before and had no choice. So of course for them prenatal diagnostics is a blessing, and it certainly is in a way. I don't know if tge parents knew about the Down Syndrome before, but they knew that she had a problem with her heart. So they chose a maternity clinic with a cardiac center.

So prenatal diagnostics can be both: boon and bane...

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Re: The Serious Side

Post by What Would He Say on Mon Jul 18 2016, 16:12

LizzyNY wrote:Caolhathaway - Do people really ask you why you didn't abort your children?! How could anyone be so insensitive and cruel - let alone ill-mannered? How can they not understand that every child is a blessing, and that people like you who care for special needs children deserve all the praise in the world?

As a teacher, I worked for several years with Down Syndrome children at various levels of development. It was often difficult and frustrating, but at the end of the day I could go home and put "work" out of my mind. I was amazed at the incredible strength and devotion of their  parents who knew they had a lifetime of difficulty ahead of them but never gave up. And that's because these children bring joy and laughter and especially love into our lives, just like any other child .

Anyone who has a healthy child should thank whatever deity they believe in for their good fortune -and if they can't offer help to someone less fortunate, they should shut the hell up!


CarolH...All the above times 10 x 10....

Not all handicapped/special needs people are born....none of us know what the road ahead has in store for us...or our families and the people we love.....

The people that asked you those awful questions are very sure of the future....Which proves their ignorance as non of us can be sure of that....X

An Irish composer wrote a song about his Down's syndrome child...I'll post it if you would like....

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Re: The Serious Side

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