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TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by party animal - not! on Tue Jan 19 2016, 10:12

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by carolhathaway on Tue Jan 19 2016, 11:37

So Nasheed's brother served as a guarantor for Nasheed's return? But was allowed to travel to London with him?
So I guess either Nasheed's brother has a family in the Maldives so the government knows the two brothers are not going to risk their safety, or the government just wanted to save face in saying: "We have a guarantor, no matter if we'll ever be able to enforce our claims. But we said that we want a guarantor, and now we've got him technically."

I don't think the British government would request his extraction if Nasheed would refuse to return. Or what would they do if his doctors would refuse to let him go back to prison for health issues?
Could they enforce it?

Of course the Foreign Minister of the Maldives said that Amal lied, and we as outsiders can't judge if that's true. But I guess every non-democratic country would say that... Well, at least the UN and Amnesty International are confidential sources IMO, and they say the same.

But I think that Nasheed's case really is a good example of how to bring attention about human rights violations to the world. At least I had never thought about that before. But we as tourists do have a power (although it is going to be bad for the economy and the people there first before it takes effects to the government) and should think about where we go on Holidays (although it really must be beautiful...).

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by Katiedot on Tue Jan 19 2016, 12:17

carolhathaway wrote:Of course the Foreign Minister of the Maldives said that Amal lied, and we as outsiders can't judge if that's true. But I guess every non-democratic country would say that...
Even in a democratic country, politicians will claim people lied. Amal hasn't (in my opinion anyway) lied about anything she's said. She's just been picky with what facts she's chosen to share and ignored that many of them are irrelevant to her case. Well, she needs to bring publicity to her case and got it.

carolhathaway wrote:But we as tourists do have a power (although it is going to be bad for the economy and the people there first before it takes effects to the government) and should think about where we go on Holidays (although it really must be beautiful...).
And there we have it: this is what Amal's team want. They won't call for an outright boycott of the Maldives because they know the irrevokable damage that would do to the people of the Maldives and they wouldn't want that on their reputation, but they're more than happy to have the same effect by painting the worst possible picture of the country in order to encourage tourists to go elsewhere.

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by party animal - not! on Tue Jan 19 2016, 13:14

Mm, well, it seems to me that as a one-industry state, the Maldives is in a delicate position vis a vis Deash, since there's nothing that they like more than destroying an economy and creating a power vacuum.

What do we do about that? Try to make sure that there's a living, breathing democracy and judiciary in power and arm people with the knowledge to do that? Or hope for the best? 

There are many places in the world that people visit which are far from democratic, but not necessarily totally reliant on the one industry for their economic wellbeing.

Global awareness may bring a better result. Really hope so for the sake of everyone living there

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by carolhathaway on Tue Jan 19 2016, 13:46

Katie,
I wanted to point out that. Of course it's really bad for a country's economy when people boycott it, and it's always the question if people have the right to tell a country / a government what to do. And we don't know alyway which is the right way to live.

I don't think there is going to be a large effect on that: Many people don't care where they go on holidays as long as it's cheap, there's a beach, the sea or ocean and a lot of sun. And the people speak their language. And the Maldives are quite an exclusive holiday destination.

About 15 years ago I read a novel about holidays in the Maldives, and the author described it quute realistic (I think), she wrote about the wonderful  beaches and ocean, how great it was to dive and watch the underwater world. And then they went outside their resort and went to Male, and they were really shocked how different this was to their holiday island resort. They tried to talk to people but most of them refused to speak to them (just 'normal' questions about their daily life, no political questions or discussions). One man answered their questions, and suddenly police appeared and arrested this man. They also had to answer many questions and were really worried about their own safety and alsobabout the trouble they caused to this man. The author's friends who were with her had been to the Maldives several times before but decided not to go there again.
So I think everybody has to decide what to do, it's like the discussion we had here about cheap clothes (Primark etc.)  which is paid for by the workers...

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Jan 19 2016, 13:55

Here is the latest article from Jared Genser

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There are also a handful of articles from last fall online describing the concern and growing influence of terrorism in the Maldives.  A couple of these articles do not mention the legal case of Nasheed at all.

A very small country with an oppressive government that seems to tolerate the presence of terrorist factions should be a serious concern for the country.


Last edited by Donnamarie on Tue Jan 19 2016, 13:56; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Corrected text)

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Jan 19 2016, 14:07

carolhathaway wrote:Donna,
I don't understand it either. I'm just happy that Nasheed gets the medical help he needs. It's the whole team that worked to get this done, and I'm pretty sure that we'll never get to know what has been negociated about requirements closed doors...

Sorry I didn't respond to this in my last post.  

It is great news that Nasheed will get his much needed surgery.  Unfortunately, but for the right reasons, he will return to his country and back to prison ... IMO.  I can't help but think that last week's visit by his legal team to Washington, D.C. greatly influenced his government's decision to allow him to go.

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by carolhathaway on Tue Jan 19 2016, 15:47

Donna,
thanks for the article.
Amal is often critizised for doing 'PR' for her cases (I just read it in a comment on her thread) but Jared Genser did exactly the same thing and used the same arguments as Amal. He used the press as well and uses social medias. I get the impression that lawyers who are specialized in other fields of law see this kind of lobbying as suspect but I think that the work they do is just different: Their work isn't based on laws, they often fight laws or verdicts as inhuman or against international law. They critizise laws and government and so - sorry for bringing it up again and again - work on a diplomatic level, try to put pressure on governments. They also work with international courts like The Hague.That's very different to the work other lawyers do because no court can force a country to change their law. And so you need to put pressure on them, and that works on a different level and is - just lobbyism...

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by LizzyNY on Tue Jan 19 2016, 18:06

Carolhathaway - You raise a lot of interesting points. I have long felt that all lawyers have to be skilled at a sort of ethical gymnastics - maybe a kind of tunnel vision - in order to put their client's needs first. Lobbyism is a perfect term for it at the level of international law.

What disturbs me is that if people do boycott the Maldives, the worsening economic conditions could strengthen the move toward Islamic fundamentalism making them even easier targets for terrorist groups like ISIS.

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by amaretti on Tue Jan 19 2016, 18:21

I think she made a good point .

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Jan 19 2016, 19:36

It is worrisome that the bad press the Maldives could get might hurt their economy and could make conditions ripe for future terrorist activity.  But the sanctions proposed are targeted to selected regime officials and pro government  business officials and their assets.  Not likely to affect the overall economy of the Maldives so much.  But the media reports on this case and the state of government corruption could scare some tourists away.

And if the current government is not addressing the terrorism problem and is instead turning a blind eye to what's going on it seems to me the problem still exists. 
And could get worse.  And that would be potentially terrible for tourists too.

i can't imagine that the issues that have been brought up on this thread haven't been discussed between Nasheed and his legal team.

This is just the way I see it with what I've read.

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by carolhathaway on Tue Jan 19 2016, 19:53

LizzyNY wrote:Carolhathaway - You raise a lot of interesting points. I have long felt that all lawyers have to be skilled at a sort of ethical gymnastics - maybe a kind of tunnel vision - in order to put their client's needs first. Lobbyism is a perfect term for it at the level of international law.

What disturbs me is that if people do boycott the Maldives, the worsening economic conditions could strengthen the move toward Islamic fundamentalism making them even easier targets for terrorist groups like ISIS.
Lizzy,
when I was at college I wanted to study law. One day I was able to go to court to watch the summation of a murder trial, and after that I knew that I couldn't be a prosecutor, nor a jurist or an advocate. I think that you need to have certain characteristics to ge good at that job, and I just am not like this. So I decided to study local government law - much more boring, hardly any trials at court, but - as Amal described in one of the interviews - I'm able to sleep at night, I'm not responsible for people's freedom, health, life and security.

You're right: if people do boycott the Maldives, it would be bad for the economy and that might help to recrute people for ISIS. But do you really think that many people care for what Jared and Amal say? Most people don't know where the Maldives are located, and they might say: "I would never go there for a vacation!" but don't plan to do this anyway (like me).
For us Europeans the Maldives are a very exclusive destination, and I guess it's the same for you. 

Another thought about the impact the call for a boycott might have on Americans:
One of my cousins was at university in Kansas when 9/11 happened, and when she talked to people about it and how shocked everybody in Europe was and that they all mourned as well the reply was: "But that happened in New York and Washington and has nothing to do with us!"
Maybe people in Kansas are special (not just Dorothy in "The Wizard of Oz")...

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by LizzyNY on Tue Jan 19 2016, 23:41

Carolhathaway - I think it takes a special kind of person to be a courtroom lawyer.You have to like to argue and compete and have a strong need to win. I think there's a lot in common with acting, too. You have to like being the center of attention to get up and argue your case in front of a courtroom full of people. I wouldn't want to do it either.

I don't think the sanctions they're calling for will hurt the Maldives. I do think that if the impression people get in the media is that there is an ISIS threat in the Maldives it could have an impact on tourism. From what Katie says, their economy is fragile and tourism-based, so this could really be a problem. (Although not my problem - I can't afford to go there and neither can anyone else I know.)

Final thought. America is a very big country. When you have such a large population there are bound to be some idiots running around. (Sadly, we have learned since 9/11 that none of us is immune to terrorism. Even in Kansas.)

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by party animal - not! on Wed Jan 20 2016, 00:24

Something to note that may not be obvious is the fact that Jared Genser, Amal Clooney - and Ben Emmerson from time to time - were all appointed by the UN as the legal team for Nasheed.........and Genser's twitter credits his local legal team tonight as well

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by carolhathaway on Wed Jan 20 2016, 08:26

Lizzy,
when I went to court that day I talked about where the summation for the murder trial was held we had a certain situation:
The defendants hadn't given an evidence about what happened at all.
The advocate tried to get a verdict of not guilty (of course).
The prosecutor tried to interprete the facts in the way to get a verdict of guilty.
And the Jurist had to find out what had happened, who killed this man and which imprisonment would be lawful. (We don't have jury courts in Germany.)
At that point I realized that that's nothing I could do: I couldn't defend somebody I know is guilty for a crime. I couldn't try to get somebody in prison as a prosecutor if I wasn't sure he was guilty. And I couldn't convict somebody as a jurist without a plea of guilty.
Has anybody of you seen 'How to Get Away With Murder'? Viola Davis tells her students never to ask somebody if he committed that crime because that would make it more difficult to defend him.

Some years ago a boy in Germany was kidnapped, and a young man was arrested because he was suspicious to have kidnapped him. They wanted to rescue the boy and tried to find out where the young man hid him but the man didn't tell the police. The evidence was overwhelming so they were very sure they had the right guy. So the chief of police threatened to torture him, and then the man said where the boy was. He was dead, killed just after he had been kidnapped. The young man was convicted to life imprisonment and then he set a penel charge to the chief of police for being threatened to be tortured. He even went to the European Court for Human Rights in Strasbourg but didn't succeed because he wanted to be set free (although he had made a confession).
I couldn't work for somebody like him...

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

Post by Katiedot on Wed Jan 20 2016, 12:43

carolhathaway wrote:About 15 years ago I read a novel about holidays in the Maldives, and the author described it quute realistic (I think), she wrote about the wonderful  beaches and ocean, how great it was to dive and watch the underwater world. And then they went outside their resort and went to Male, and they were really shocked how different this was to their holiday island resort. They tried to talk to people but most of them refused to speak to them (just 'normal' questions about their daily life, no political questions or discussions). One man answered their questions, and suddenly police appeared and arrested this man. They also had to answer many questions and were really worried about their own safety and alsobabout the trouble they caused to this man. The author's friends who were with her had been to the Maldives several times before but decided not to go there again.
Yep, I can believe that - especially if it was a while back while the country was under the dictatorship of Gayoom.

carolhathaway wrote: I get the impression that lawyers who are specialized in other fields of law see this kind of lobbying as suspect but I think that the work they do is just different: Their work isn't based on laws, they often fight laws or verdicts as inhuman or against international law. They critizise laws and government and so - sorry for bringing it up again and again - work on a diplomatic level, try to put pressure on governments. They also work with international courts like The Hague.That's very different to the work other lawyers do because no court can force a country to change their law. And so you need to put pressure on them, and that works on a different level and is - just lobbyism...
I think that's a big part of Amal's job: I don't think she spends much, if any time, actually in a courtroom as she's not that kind of lawyer. Lobbying sounds like the right word for what she des.

LizzyNY wrote:What disturbs me is that if people do boycott the Maldives, the worsening economic conditions could strengthen the move toward Islamic fundamentalism making them even easier targets for terrorist groups like ISIS.
I'd like to think that wouldn't happen, but certainly if the tourism industry collapsed, the majority of people in the country would suddenly be out of work (remembering that it's the salaries of resort workers that keeps non-tourism related business such as shops, housing landlords, maintenance suppliers, boat hire etc in business). What impact would that have? It would generate a huge amount of resentment towards the west who put them in that position.

[quote="LizzyNY"]I don't think the sanctions they're calling for will hurt the Maldives.[quote] I agree that they're asking for what I'd call smart sanctions: they only want to limit the money and travel of the econimc giantsin the Maldives. However, by throwing in this completely irrelevant information about Daesh, what they're aiming for is to creat a general fear for tourists wanting to travel to the Maldives.

LizzyNY wrote:(Although not my problem - I can't afford to go there and neither can anyone else I know.)
Hahahaha! Same here! I can only afford to go there if someone pays for me!

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Re: TV interview with Amal Clooney on NBC

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