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December 2014 Chit Chat

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Donnamarie on Mon Dec 15 2014, 17:30

Just saw a CNN report that police stormed the cafe, shot the gunman and rescued the hostages. Hope everyone is ok. If so, great effort by the Aussie police!

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Mon Dec 15 2014, 18:49

Unfortunately one hostage was killed, apparently by the hostage taker.
He was killed by the Australian Special Services.
Some hostages were injured physically and I imagine
they'll be injured mentally and physically too by their experience.


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/police-storm-sydney-cafe-to-end-hostage-siege-reports-say-two-dead/ar-BBgPZhi

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Nicky80 on Mon Dec 15 2014, 19:23

That's really horrible. And the hostage taker was known as radical to the Government and he was out on probation.

He was original from Iran but imigrated to Australia. And that's big in the News here. In Germany we have big Demonstration regularly since weeks one side against radical Moslems in Germany and lot of racist use that for them to get more powerfull and then the other demonstrations against prejudice against People from those war Zone Moslem countries.

I think lot of People getting more and more scared. On one Hand People are concerned about muslims living in your Country and turn radical (of course not all) but don't want to sound racist. How do you express your concern?

I think this is a Long way to go....(just my 2 Cents)

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Mon Dec 15 2014, 20:43

Nicky80 wrote:That's really horrible. And the hostage taker was known as radical to the Government and he was out on probation.

He was original from Iran but imigrated to Australia. And that's big in the News here. In Germany we have big Demonstration regularly since weeks one side against radical Moslems in Germany and lot of racist use that for them to get more powerfull and then the other demonstrations against prejudice against People from those war Zone Moslem countries.

I think lot of People getting more and more scared. On one Hand People are concerned about muslims living in your Country and turn radical (of course not all) but don't want to sound racist. How do you express your concern?

I think this is a Long way to go....(just my 2 Cents)




The latest news is here.....

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/police-storm-sydney-cafe-to-end-hostage-siege-three-dead/ar-BBgPZhi

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This means a lot

Post by it's me on Mon Dec 15 2014, 21:34

Amen


http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2014.html


(about 90% are male
This means something...)

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Dec 16 2014, 01:48

Really sad that two of the hostages were killed in the Sydney siege. That's what I heard tonight. Plus the gunman. What's really unnerving is that this happened in a public place where people go everyday, going about their business and not thinking they are in harms way.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LornaDoone on Tue Dec 16 2014, 04:30

So sad that the hostages were killed. 

As to the hostage taker / terrorist whatever he was - on his death not going to shed any tears over him that's for sure.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by sparkie on Tue Dec 16 2014, 09:04

This 'thing' was

Known to have sent vile messages to the families of our men killed in battle.
Was as an accessory for murdering his first wife.
Charged with over 40 sexual assaults. And yet he was out on bail WTF.

I use to work in Martin Place where this occurred, it is a beautiful part of Sydney where so many people have said to their friends when arranging a night out, we'll meet you in Martin place.

No,I will not shed a tear for this 'thing', but I will wish him this. ROT IN FUCKING HELL.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Tue Dec 16 2014, 16:37

Yes sparkie I agree with your words.
I hope that there can be some peaceful spiritual cleansing of Martin Place for the future. flower

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Tue Dec 16 2014, 17:45

It's been a bad couple of days around the world.
Hopefully this will restore our faith in humanity ?



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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by it's me on Tue Dec 16 2014, 17:56

bellissimo grazie!

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Nicky80 on Tue Dec 16 2014, 22:23

OK to the Americans on here...

I just read in the News that Jeb Bush (the brother of George W Bush) announced via twitter today that he is interested to run for president and might apply for it.......

Do you think that's possible? I really hope we never see the Name Bush again in the White house..... Shocked

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Tue Dec 16 2014, 23:30

Nicky - Sorry, but it is possible. People have been talking about him running for a while, but he hadn't said anything definite until now.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Tue Dec 16 2014, 23:32

Jeb.....what sort of name is that ??? confused

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Tue Dec 16 2014, 23:34

it's me wrote:bellissimo grazie!


It is indeed IM.....glad you thought so too. x

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by PigPen on Wed Dec 17 2014, 15:43

My heart goes out to the families in Pakistan.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Nicky80 on Wed Dec 17 2014, 21:30

Not sure if you heard it in the News.

A German Exchange Student was shut dead in the US. The studen walked into his Garage as part of a dare. And the prosecution could prove that the shooter made a trap as he wanted to shoot someone as a revange as somebody broke into his house twice in the past. He tried to get away by argueing with the Castle Doctrine law.

The Jury found him guilty.... I'm so happy about this Thumbs up!








KAARMA FOUND GUILTY
MISSOULA - A Missoula County jury has found Markus Kaarma guilty of deliberate homicide in the April shooting death of German exchange student Diren Dede.
Dede's mother burst into tears as the decision came down, while Markus Kaarma himself was immediately taken into custody by sheriff's deputies.
The jury had been deliberating the case for nearly 10 hours before reaching their decision midday today.
We will update with court reactions and statements soon. We will bring you footage from the courtroom as well as interviews with the German Consulate and Diren Dede's father.

http://www.kpax.com/news/kaarma-found-guilty-101592/

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Nicky80 on Wed Dec 17 2014, 21:53

Kaarma guilty verdict brings relief, anguish to Missoula courtroom

MISSOULA - Diren Dede's father grabbed his sobbing wife in a close embrace, flashing reporters a "thumbs up" moments after hearing a "guilty" verdict for the man accused of killing his son.

A jury found Kaarma guilty of deliberate homicide Wednesday afternoon after roughly nine hours of deliberation, closing a case that began with the fatal shooting of the German exchange student.

Prosecutors had accused Kaarma of planning the killing after different burglars had broken into his garage last April.
The courtroom was packed with friends and family of both the defendant and the victim as the jury announced its decision shortly after 1 p.m.

Celal Dede and his wife had been on the front row for every day of the trial. The hearing had been emotional from the start for Gulcin Dede, who had to leave the courtroom several times when the jury was shown graphic photos and heard depictions of her son's violent death from a shotgun blast.

After sobbing into her husband's shoulder for a couple of minutes, Gulcin joined her husband sharing warm hugs with the prosecution team with Celal exclaiming "thank you Montana" as the courtroom emptied.

Meanwhile, Karma's wife, Janelle Pflager, reacted with a sob when she learned her partner's fate. She was one of the key witnesses in the two-week trial, but all of her testimony came during the prosecution's presentation. Defense attorneys had opted not to put her on the stand during the day-and-a-half they defended Kaarma.

Kaarma was taken into immediate custody by Missoula County Sheriff's deputies.

Karma's next hearing will be Thursday morning, when Judge Ed McLean and the attorneys will review whether there will be any changes in bail and any conditions for release pending a possible appeal, and well as other post trial issues.
Sentencing is set for February 11th.

http://www.kpax.com/news/kaarma-guilty-verdict-brings-relief-anguish-to-missoula-courtroom/

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Wed Dec 17 2014, 23:31

PigPen wrote:My heart goes out to the families in Pakistan.


What kind of 'person' can carry out a mass slaying of children, for revenge, of all things? This is what gives fodder to Islamophobia. And it accomplishes nothing, except to temporarily satisfy a sick bloodlust and lead to even more horrible deaths. This is not war. It's only mass murder. 'People' who do this kind of thing are the worst kinds of cowards. They fight only those who can't fight back, and they run for cover from those who can. Absolute cowards.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Katiedot on Thu Dec 18 2014, 17:37

What is going on in the world at the moment? Every day I watch the news and think that nothing worse can happen and the next day something else truly awful happens.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by theminis on Sat Dec 20 2014, 00:15

Something truly awful has happened here in Australia again, but happens all over the place I know.

8 children between the ages of 18 months and 15 years were found dead inside a home in Cairns yesterday morning - a 37 year old lady (who police later confirmed was the mother of 7 of the deceased children) was taken to hospital with stab wounds.  Overnight that same lady has now been arrested (but not charged).

My heart feels sick, terrorism in schools, sieges, murdering innocent children. 

I know to a lot of people it may not matter, but its the week before Christmas, a time when if you have children you are supposed to make it special, exciting and loving for them.  Its meant to be a time to put a smile on your face and feel the joy/love that easier to find this time of year.  But instead there will be a bunch of funerals for a whole lot of innocent people, its beyond tragic. 

Sorry to be a downer but this last week of news around the globe especially close to home is affecting me as Im sure many many others.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Nicky80 on Sat Dec 20 2014, 00:17

saw that in the news today. Really awful. Hard to understand what makes People think to do something like this....

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Dec 20 2014, 04:15

Theminis, my heart goes out to you. The news from Australia the last few days has been heartbreaking. I don't understand people, I really don't.

How are you? Are the kids alright? I hope you can put this ugliness out of your mind enough to enjoy the holidays with your family and friends. Give Flowers

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Donnamarie on Sat Dec 20 2014, 04:20

I saw this horrible story on the news tonight. It's beyond me how anyone could kill innocent children.. theminis, your country has suffered so much this week. My heart goes out to all of you.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LornaDoone on Sat Dec 20 2014, 22:41

Joanna wrote:It's been a bad couple of days around the world.
Hopefully this will restore our faith in humanity ?



Thanks for posting this.  I think we need another reminder that there ARE really kind people in the world to offset all the negative that's happened lately.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Sat Dec 20 2014, 23:16

That's what I was thinking Lorna when
I spotted this on someone's FaceBook.

I HAVE to believe there is more good in this world
than bad. We just don't get to hear enough about
the good things IMO.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Nicky80 on Sun Dec 21 2014, 11:50

that's really awful


2 NYPD police officers 'assassinated'; shooter dead

New York (CNN) -- Officer Rafael Ramos sat in the driver's seat. Officer Wenjian Liu was at his side.
The two cops weren't at their usual precinct -- normally, the pair was assigned to downtown Brooklyn, but they were working a "critical response" detail in an area with higher crime, police said.
That's where they were slain, ambush-style -- Saturday afternoon as they sat in their patrol car, New York Police Commissioner William Bratton said at an evening news conference.

New York Police Officer Rafael Ramos

New York Police Officer Wenjian Liu
The gunman approached the passenger side of the patrol car and took a shooting stance, witnesses told police. He opened fire several times, striking both officers in the head, Bratton said.
They were "shot and killed with no warning, no provocation," Bratton told reporters. "They were quite simply, assassinated."
The gunman was found dead in a nearby subway station from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
The thin blue line
The families of the fallen officers rushed to Woodhull Medical Center on Saturday, as dozens of their comrades gathered in a show of support.
Ramos had just turned 40 this month; Liu got married two months ago.
Both dreamed of being police officers, Bratton said.
"One of the unfortunate realities of policing is that you put that blue uniform on and you become part of the thin blue line between us and anarchy," Bratton said.

Mayor Bill de Blasio and Bratton met with the families of the victims. De Blasio said that Ramos' 13-year-old son couldn't comprehend what had happened to his father.
"When a police officer is murdered, it tears at the foundation of our society," the mayor said. "It is an attack on the very concept of decency."
President Barack Obama condemned the shooting.
"Two brave men won't be going home to their loved ones tonight, and for that, there is no justification," he said in a statement.
"The officers who serve and protect our communities risk their own safety for ours every single day - and they deserve our respect and gratitude every single day."

The suspect
Police identified the shooter as Ismaaiyl Brinsley.
He arrived in New York from Baltimore, but had a residence in the Atlanta suburb of Union City, Georgia. Bratton said that Brinsley was somehow connected to Brooklyn, but would not discuss that information.
Bratton said at this time, there was no indication Brinsley was connected to any terrorist groups or organized entity.
Police were investigating posts Brinsley allegedly made on social media.
There was at least one post threatening to kill police on an Instagram account in his name, connected to the threat with the poster's anger at the high-profile deaths of African-Americans Michael Brown and Eric Garner.
The account also displayed a handgun and a message that said it may be his last post.
Bratton said that the suspect had earlier shot and seriously wounded a woman believed to be his ex-girlfriend in Baltimore.
Brinsley also had a lengthy arrest record in Georgia, mostly involving charges of shoplifting and illegal weapons possession. He was also charged with property damage and obstructing a police officer.
He pleaded guilty to many of the charges, according to police and court records.
Baltimore police received information that Brinsley had made threatening comments about officers, and sent a warning to police in New York, Bratton said.

That message came almost the same time the ambush happened.
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder called the attack "an unspeakable act of barbarism."
De Blasio also called the shootings an "assassination."
"It is an attack on all of us," he said. "It is an attack on everything we hold dear."
"This can't happen"
The shooting jolted residents in the neighborhood.
"This can't happen. If you mad at somebody, be mad at the person that you are mad at. Now, we have two families that (are) missing somebody for the holidays," Shaniqua Pervis told CNN affiliate WABC.
"Where is your humanity? I know it's a war going on and shoutout to Eric Garner's family and everybody else who lost somebody, but you're not at his house, on his lawn. This is two (officers). You don't even know if (they were) good or bad. I don't condone this, and I'm not with it."
The woman was referring to the controversial July death of the unarmed black man after New York police officers on Staten Island wrestled him to the ground, with one of the officers wrapping his arm around Garner's neck in a chokehold.
A grand jury's decision not to indict the police officer in the Garner case, as well as a separate grand jury's refusal to indict an officer in a controversial police shooting of unarmed teen Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, led to nationwide protests against the police.
Brown's family condemned Saturday's slayings.
"We reject any kind of violence directed toward members of law enforcement. It cannot be tolerated. We must work together to bring peace to our communities," they said in a statement.
"Our thoughts and prayers go out to the officers' families during this incredibly difficult time."

In a statement, activist the Rev. Al Sharpton said the Garner family was outraged by news of the shootings.
"Any use of the names of Eric Garner and Michael Brown, in connection with any violence or killing of police, is reprehensible and against the pursuit of justice in both cases," the statement said. "We have stressed at every rally and march that anyone engaged in any violence is an enemy to the pursuit of justice for Eric Garner and Michael Brown."
Tensions between the community and police have heightened around the country since the deaths of Brown and Garner.
"This could not have come at a worse time," City Councilman Robert Cornegy told CNN affiliate PIX.
So far, police have not commented on the motive for the Brooklyn shootings, except to say the officers were not engaging the shooter in any way when they were shot.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/21/us/new-york-police-officers-shot/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Sun Dec 21 2014, 14:16

This is so sad. Give Flowers2
More families ruined......and for what ?


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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Sun Dec 21 2014, 17:47

Jo- The relationship between the police and the public in NY has always been complicated, as I suspect it is in any large city where people don't know their neighbors, let alone the officers who patrol their streets. It is difficult to trust a stranger, especially one in a position of power who could change your life forever in just a moment.

Our mayor hasn't helped things by seeming to take sides against the police in the recent trouble. He should have tried to stay neutral, but because he didn't he made the situation even more tense. The police are angry with him for disrespecting them and the danger they face keeping the city safe. Now he's trying to behave as if he totally supports them. He's a major hypocrite.

What happened yesterday was tragic, but considering the way things have been going recently, it isn't a total surprise that some lunatic took advantage of the situation to act out his sick fantasy.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Sun Dec 21 2014, 18:07

Lizzy...thanks for some enlightenment on the
situation in NY.
It seems as if every day lately there has been
a tragedy of one kind or another.
But as my hubby said to me "We hear about it now,
either by 24 news or Internet"

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Sun Dec 21 2014, 20:12

Jo - I think your hubby is right. It struck me not long ago that the news is filled with stories we would never have been aware of before. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, but it can be depressing and make the world seem like a pretty unfriendly place.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Sun Dec 21 2014, 20:32

Lizzy....I remember I heard someone on the radio say,
long before we had the Internet, that now we had 24 hour news our brains and emotions got overloaded.

We were made only to worry about our families and
how to keep the sabre toothed tiger away from
our cave.
Now we had to worry about things happening on the other side of the world and it's just too much
to cope with.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by it's me on Sun Dec 21 2014, 21:14

oh damn

I agree Sad
it's so overwhelming sometime ...

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Sun Dec 21 2014, 21:51

Lizzy, you obviously would know more about the atmosphere in NYC than I do. But could you explain to me what exactly the mayor did that was wrong?

From what I know, he recognized the (rightful) outrage of people over the police killing an unarmed man, and then not being indicted. He met with representatives of the protesters -- a part of his constituency that has issues they want addressed. That's his job. He supports the police, but he shouldn't have to be an apologist for them when they do wrong.

Members of the police organizations, meanwhile, wrote articles and blog posts about how it doesn't matter why they stop you or what they tell you to do; they are cops and are to be obeyed, no questions asked, or you face any consequences they deem fit. Worse, they wrote that the man who was killed by the cop with a banned chokehold died because he was overweight and "was going to die anyway."

How is it the cops are right in this? They incited as much or more anger than any protester or city official with their circle-the-wagons response. It was ugly and racist and beyond arrogant.

When the head of an organized police group stands up and says that the mayor, the leader of the city the cops are charged to protect -- as well as being the protection for the mayor himself -- has "blood on his hands" when cops are killed, because the mayor didn't go to the mat for a murdering cop... It's time for the NYPD to accept their responsibility in how all of this is unfolding. If anybody besides the deranged shooter has blood on their hands, it's the police.

I'm not arguing here. Maybe I don't know all the details. I'm sincerely asking to be corrected if I'm wrong.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LornaDoone on Sun Dec 21 2014, 22:37

I've noticed on Twitter that the head of the police union made inflammatory statements that the police were now at war.  Many are asking if the role of police is to protect and serve then with whom are they now at war?

I've said it before a police force that allows and even protects bad cops makes it unsafe for good cops too.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Mon Dec 22 2014, 15:04

Yeah, they don't seem to get that the "us against them" attitude is at the root of the problem.

They're not overseers, or an occupying force in a hostile land. They're public servants, with the job of protecting citizens. Yet, in reading the things they say, I have to conclude that's pretty much how they view themselves.

We all support our police forces, but it doesn't extend to blind and unconditional loyalty for cops who can't do their jobs without hurting and killing people without cause. For them to expect that is unfathomable to me. They point fingers everywhere except at their own house. They're the ones inciting anger with rhetoric. And until they admit that or figure it out, things are only going to get worse.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Mon Dec 22 2014, 21:42

Way2Old & Lorna - Please understand that no rational person here condones police brutality - including the police. Since he took office, however, our mayor has been making comments about "stop and frisk" policies, the need for re-training  all our cops because they aren't up to snuff  and has totally ignored the fact that the city is safer than it has been in years. He has shown a lack of respect and support for police work in this city. They did not ask him to apologize for them. They wanted him to look at the issues impartially. He did not.

Until those two officers were murdered our mayor came down firmly on the side of the protestors. He approved their right to shout threats to the police while they demonstrated, he told his son to be careful because the police were a danger to him, and when two police officers were attacked during a demonstration he called it an "alleged" attack, even though it was caught on tape by a news station.

Is every police officer a saint? Of course not. But they're the first ones we call when we're in trouble, especially in high crime areas, and they always show up ready to help - no matter who calls. They put their lives on the line for all of us - not just some of us - every day. Ask the people in Bushwick where those two officers died how they feel about what happened. They'll tell you the same thing I'm saying here. The police stand between us and anarchy in this city and we all know it. Could they do a better job? Sure. But making them feel like they're criminals isn't the way to go to improve things. They're angry, but they are not at war with the people of this city. They are at war with our hypocrite of a mayor for putting a target on their backs by painting them as out of control incompetents one day and praising them as heroes the next. He is a political opportunist who will say pretty much anything he thinks his constituents want to hear.

End of rant.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Tue Dec 23 2014, 01:59

Thanks for your explanation. I didn't know the animosity went back a ways.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Tue Dec 23 2014, 02:29

Way2Old - The animosity goes back to before this mayor was elected. Part of his platform was to "reform" the police department. He took a situation that needed improvement and turned it into a major problem. Police/community relations weren't terrible, but they weren't as good as they could be. Now the police don't feel safe on the streets and they think the mayor is more concerned with politics than he is with their safety.

I think the majority of people here - of all races and ethnicities - support the police more than they do the mayor in this situation. We know we need the police and we know what they risk to keep the city safe.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Dec 23 2014, 02:37

Police officers, firefighters and the military are truly some of most honorable professions in which to serve. They put their lives on the line everyday. But there are bad apples in every one of these professions. They are not saints but most strive to do the best they can under stressful situations. And I do believe in many communities there is bias. Bias against blacks. Bias against Hispanics. I feel the stop and frisk policy plays right into that bias. Just as I am not of the mind that I don't support the U.S., right or wrong I also don't believe the police force should be defended right or wrong. We always have to strive to right those wrongs. Makes ourselves better than we are. There are problems with the police in many communities across our country so we've got to focus on getting to the root of the problem in those communities and make the relationship between the police and those communities better. There's got to be trust and respect on both sides. It's complicated and messy and absolutely necessary.

I'm not sure where I stand on how de Blasio is handling the situation in NYC. Seems he alienated some by relaying the story of how he had to have a talk with his son on why he needs to be careful with the police. There have been stories relayed by other men with black sons who have had to have "the talk" with their black sons about what you should and should not do if you get stopped by the police. Even Obama relayed stories of before he was President how he felt singled out as a black man by police. I think it's a legitimate concern and I don't think the mayor was necessarily singling out the NY police but just police in general.

I support the protests in NYC but I did see one video of a protest where the protesters were shouting "what do we want? Dead cops". That is disgusting and does nothing but incite violence. I was under the impression that the protests in NY were peaceful and I don't know why the mayor can't support those protests and still support his police force. Of course I don't live in NY LizzyNY and you do and probably have a different perspective on the interaction between the police and the mayor's office.

The horrible deaths of Officers Ramos and Liu were despicable and caused by a very mentally ill man with a gun. What the hell he was doing with a gun considering his past criminal record is another story. But when the Mayor went to the hospital where they were taken and walked down the hall and all the officers turned their backs on him I found that very disrespectful. No one including the mayor wanted to see these officers lose their lives and it was incredibly inappropriate for the officers to conduct themselves in that way.

Somehow the Mayor's office and the police are going to have to come together and work out some compromises otherwise the city will suffer the consequences of a broken law enforcement system. Obviously de Blasio wants to see some changes made in his police department. Wasn't that one of his campaign issues?


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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LizzyNY on Tue Dec 23 2014, 04:20

Donnamarie - If over the last weeks the mayor had spoken out about the threats made by demonstrators, if he had condemned those who were calling for violence in the same way that he criticized the police, maybe the situation would be less tense. I'm sure he didn't want anyone to die, but his one-sided approach has caused a divide between him and the police force. They turned their backs on him the way they feel he has turned his back on them.

I don't know why he can't support  peaceful protest and the police at the same time, but apparently he either can't or won't. He isn't doing anything to make things better for the city, he's making things worse and the people he claims to care about are the ones who are going to suffer the consequences of a police force that feels unsupported.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by LornaDoone on Tue Dec 23 2014, 04:32

If he's been ripping the police since before he was elected then how did he get elected?  

Seems there must have been a majority of voters who agreed with him.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Tue Dec 23 2014, 14:38

Here's the problem that I have with stop-and-frisk, and (not having read the mayor's words on it) I suspect it's an issue for a lot of people. It's not applied fairly or universally. If you're going to stop-and-frisk in Bed-Stuy, then you have to stop-and-frisk in Tribeca as well.

In my hometown, there was an aggressive stop-and-frisk effort when we at the height of the cocaine wars. Young people and people of color were stopped, poor people who lived in certain neighborhoods were stopped. But I know for a fact that people who lived in what would be the equivalent of New York's Upper East Side were carrying drugs, or even guns, and they did so with impunity because they knew the cops were never going to stop and frisk them. I'm talking about the big business guys who did their coke on the way to their high-level jobs, or bought it in the bathrooms of the high-end hotels at lunch. But the low-level weed dealers in the poor neighborhoods were routine targets every day.

It's not only unfair; it skews the crime statistics, because crimes are only found where the police go looking for them.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman walked around his neighborhood visibly drugged out of his mind, and buying large amounts of expensive drugs every day for months. If he had been stopped and frisked, the police might have helped save his life, and caught a high-volume drug dealer in the process. But he was a white guy in a "good" neighborhood, and he was left alone.

For stop-and-frisk to be used as a legitimate crime control method, it has to be applied uniformly. But it gets used as a way to hassle people who "look like" they might be criminals, and there is an inherent bias in it.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Donnamarie on Tue Dec 23 2014, 14:53

Way2Old, re your stop and frisk comments - my thoughts exactly. The policy is inherently biased.

Also I just want to add that the president of the NYC police union, Patrick Lynch was so out of line to claim de Blasio had blood on his hands In blaming him for the two officers' deaths. That was an incredibly irresponsible and inflammatory comment.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by PigPen on Tue Dec 23 2014, 16:14

My Christmas wish... that this Christmas the world would call a truce as these brave men did. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-world-war-i-christmas-truce/


The Christmas dream of "Peace On Earth" briefly came true one hundred years ago. Mark Phillips has the story of the Christmas Truce of 1914:
The old line about never letting the facts get in the way of a good story could have been invented for this scene. The facts are as slippery as the muddy football field -- and the story is so good, it's still being told, even embellished, a hundred years later.
It's the story of the World War I Christmas Truce of 1914, when groups of German and British soldiers briefly stopped shooting at each other and met and mingled in the no-man's-land between their lines -- before going back to shooting at each other.
On the 100th anniversary, the encounter has been re-staged at one of the places along the old front line in Belgium where the truce originally occurred.
The men (the story goes) not only exchanged greetings and gifts; they organized a soccer game between teams from the two armies -- boots and balls instead of bullets and bayonets.
"It's Christmas, good will! Let's just be friends for the day," said Chris Barker, whose three great-uncles were killed in the war not far from here. He says the truce should be remembered because it shows a different side to a war more known for wholesale slaughter than humanitarian gesture.
"I think it just shows the good in people that can be there," he said. "Whereas days before and afterwards it was barbarous and savage, but people can suddenly lay down their differences."
The truce is now be seen as a triumph of the human spirit, an interlude of reason in the madness of war. And it may have happened because the FULL madness of this war hadn't happened yet.
This was Christmas 1914, just a few months after the outbreak of hostilities. A lot of these troops were green, not yet bloodied by the horrors to come.
At the Imperial War Museum in London, historians like Alan Wakefield say the bitterness and hatred had not yet taken hold.
"The war hadn't got that sort of, as you say, dirty at that stage," said Wakefield. "It's really 1915 that things like poison gas comes along. Zeppelin airships are bombing London, Germans sink the liner Lusitania with civilian casualties. And the propaganda machine hasn't really fed on that and actually created those sort of hatreds between the two forces."
There are varying accounts as to what happened in the trenches along the front lines. The diaries of some British soldiers say they heard calling from across the way from the German line saying, 'If you don't shoot, we won't, either"
It's unclear who stuck their heads up first, the British or the Germans. But before long troops were flooding out of trenches on both sides of the line and moving through the wire into "no man's land," and -- boys being boys -- pretty soon, a ball appeared.
The ball has become the symbol of the truce. It has pride of place in a new memorial in the old battlefield.
It's kicked around in commemorative schoolboy games, with the kids in appropriate uniform . . . and of just about appropriate age.
And, with a suitably bilingual version of "Silent Night" (just as it was reputably sung by the opposing armies a hundred years ago), teams from the modern British and German armies squared off in what was called The Game of Truce

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Tue Dec 23 2014, 17:48

That's a wonderful Christmas story, PigPen, and in the spirit of the holiday, I will wait until Friday to burst your bubble. :-)

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by pattygirl on Tue Dec 23 2014, 19:24

Ladies, I don't wish to belabor a discussion that has been ongoing regarding the supposed police brutality that is occurring around this country.  Just received this video from a friend.  It is about Michael Brown, one of those "poor, gentle giants" as their mothers call them.  This is the real Michael Brown, and this is the kind of "gentle giant" that resists arrest for lawful causes.  These are behemoths (sic) and they are not easily subdued. No one talks about the "injuries" that these "gentle souls" inflict on those trying to apprehend them.  That doesn't seem to matter.  Yes, brute force must sometimes be used to subdue but most times the results are positive.

I'm sure I'll be called on the carpet for my thoughts and words but these men are not the "sweet, innocents" that they are portrayed.

Subject: The Real Michael Brown in Action







[size=13][size=13][size=13][size=24]Thug or Victim?
[/size][/size]
 
This video of the "gentle giant" needs to be all over the media !
 
Hands up, don't shoot, really ?
 
I'll bet that old black guy he mugged is glad he's dead !
 
Got to love his mother watching her beloved son smack some old man, then running for cover !

I vote THUG !
[/size][/size]













 






 















http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db5_1418177214
 

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by pattygirl on Tue Dec 23 2014, 19:27

Here's another play on the same subject:


Subj: THE KILLING OF   POLICE OFFICERS





> Does anyone remember Detective  Melvin Santiago?
>    He was a Jersey City police officer who was shot to
>  death just a
>   month ago, on July 13th.   Santiago was  white.
>  His killer,
>   Lawrence Campbell, was black.  Does anyone
>  recall Obama appearing
>   before national television and calling for justice
>  for Officer Santiagos
>   family?  Does anyone recall Eric Holder rushing
>  to Jersey City to
>   see that justice was  done?
>   
> How
>   about Officer Jeffrey  Westerfield? He was a Gary, Indiana police
> officer
>   who was shot to death  on July 6, 2014. Officer Westerfield was
> white,
>   his killer, Carl LeEllis  Blount, Jr. was black.
> where was Obama? Where
>   was  Holder?
>   
> Officer Perry Renn
>   was an  Indianapolis, Indiana police officer who was shot to death
> July
>   5, 2014,  the day before Officer Westerfield was killed. Officer
> Renn was
>   white. His  killer, Major Davis, was black. I don't recall any
> mention by
>   Obama about  the untimely death of Officer Renn. and, I doubt that
> Eric
>   Holder rushed  to Indianapolis to make sure justice was served.
>
>   
> Vermillion Parish Deputy
>    Sheriff Allen Bares was gunned down by two men June
> 23, 2014 in
>   Louisiana.  Deputy Bares was white. His two killers,
> Quintlan Richard and
>   Baylon  Taylor were black. Was Obama outraged? Did
> Eric Holder rush to
>   Louisiana  to make sure that the family of Deputy
> Bares found
>    justice?

   
> Detective Charles
>   Dinwiddie of  the Killen, Texas Police Department was
> murdered on May 11,
>   2014 by Marvin  Lewis Guy, a black male. Officer
> Dinwiddie was white. Do
>   you recall seeing  anything about that on the news?
> Certainly, the white
>   citizens of Killeen  didn't take to the streets
> to loot and burn
>   businesses. Do you recall any  mention of Obama or
> Holder here?

   
> Then, there is Officer Kevin
>    Jordan of Griffin, Georgia Police Department. He was
> gunned down on May
>    31, 2014. Officer Jordan was black, his killer,
> Michael Bowman was
>   white.  This was a white man murdering a black police
> officer. Where was
>   Jesse  Jackson? Where was "The Reverend" Al
> Sharpton? Was there looting
>   and  burning on the streets of Griffin, Georgia? No,
> in fact, we don't
>   recall  hearing about this one in the news as well.

 
> Why? You can draw
>   your own  conclusions.
>  Over the past 60 days, there
>    have been five reported deaths of police officers by
> gunshot in the U.S.
>    Of those, four were white officers who were murdered
> by black men.
>   Blacks  complain that white officers treat black men
> more aggressively on
>   the  street. You can draw your own conclusions on
> that one, as  well.  

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Tue Dec 23 2014, 20:05

The police officers who were shot were killed by criminals, who would have shot any officer, any color, in an altercation. For these instances to have any relevance, you'd have to show me that Black criminals don't kill Black cops. You can't, because it's not true.  

On the other hand, White cops have been objectively shown to initiate contact with and react to Black men much differently -- that is, aggressively and choosing the option of lethal force -- than they do White men.

So maybe the reason the President and Attorney General chose to speak out against the killings of Eric Garner and Michael Brown, to name the two most well known murders of Black men by White policemen, is that there is a pattern of  bias by the cops against those men because of their race, and little else.

If my brothers or my nephews, none of whom have ever been in any trouble whatsoever, encounter the police for any reason, they are justifiably afraid for their lives. There's no debate on this. My nephew was once "detained" by police (both White) because they stopped him for a nonexistent vehicle code violation and then didn't believe him when he said he had no probation papers and wasn't waiting for a court date on anything. I can point to dozens of families that have had the same thing happen. It's racism, pure and simple, and anecdotal tales of White cops being killed in the line of duty don't change that.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

Post by Joanna on Tue Dec 23 2014, 20:26

Oh my goodness.....such an amount of gun violence.
For what purpose ?
It's vile to read about that from across the pond.
We've had bad things happen here in UK.

Patty I believe we're the same age, or thereabouts.
I'm glad I won't see what happens in the future,
but do get fearful sometimes for my grand children's
generation and wonder what kind of world they'll
be living in.
I was talking about this with my hubby recently.
As children we both lived through WW11.
My husband's family home was bombed flat and they survived in the Anderson shelter for 24 hours before being dug out. My father went over to France in the DDay invasion and survived.
I think these experiences affect one sublimely
and create a different attitude somehow.
I've got a bit lost now, but hope I'm making some
kind of sence.
I think I'm saying that maybe our older generation has a feeling of gratitude for being alive and for the freedom we enjoy and we value others and wouldn't want to kill a fellow human being.
Sorry.....I've gone on a bit now.

I'm pleased that George & Amal are in the sun for Christmas with good friends.

May we all have Peace in our hearts and minds.

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Re: December 2014 Chit Chat

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