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Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

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Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Thu Jul 24 2014, 22:39

he articles were found by Miss Sunshine. thank you  Give Flowers 

I did a separate that as in the first article the writer claims that the engagement is a PR / business related for Amal's work. See below in bold. And the second and third article questions Amal and Doughty Street if this is all about money she gets and asking about the private funds to support the case. It is a long read.....

First article:


GEORGE CLOONEY’S FRIENDS-AMAL ALAMUDDIN, SAMANTHA POWER AND R2P: IMPLICATIONS FOR LIBYA

A note from the Authors:   This article was written prior to the announcement of Mr. Clooney’s intention to run for California’s Governor. However, the following quote gives credibility to our contention.   “Clooney has not made an official statement, but friends close to him say he’s turned down several long-term acting projects to pursue his political goals.

What if we make the contention that the timing of George Clooney’s engagement is part an elaborate public relations campaign? Not manufactured in a Hollywood PR department but from halls of the White House.

Preposterous?  Outrageous?  What if we say that public relations-wise, Mr. Clooney has ALREADY appeared in the media  and drew awareness to one of his fiancée’s clients?    He used his celebrity status in December (they met in September) by making an open statement in support of the client by name, as part of the Ukrainian protesters.   He subsequently used another opportunity, a red carpet event to draw awareness to same client.  The Hollywood Reporter noted: “He also said that he regards imprisoned ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko as a political prisoner. 
In the message of support aired on The Guardian, Mr. Clooney said:
“…You certainly cannot have a true democracy if you take political prisoners like Tymoshenko, simply because you disagree with the way they want to govern.”

The Kyiv Post wrote: ‘US actor George Clooney arrives on the red carpet for the screening of the film The Monuments Menpresented in the Berlinale Competition of the 64th Berlinale Film Festival in Berlin, on Feb. 8.’  He ‘was asked during a Feb. 8 news conference about his personal connections to Ukraine and why he’s chosen to support the anti-government EuroMaidan protests… He also said that he regards imprisoned ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko as a political prisoner. ‘
Doughty Street Chambers have represented former Prime Minister Tymoshenko while in prison.  ‘Amal Alamuddin and high-profile human rights activist, Geoffrey Robertson QC, with Eugenia Tymoshenko, daughter of formerly imprisoned Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko in London on November 5, 2012.’  Here
As Mr. Clooney DID use his celebrity status in different venues to raise awareness of the status of his fiancée’s client as ‘a political prisoner’, the Doughty Street position, would he raise awareness for another client?  Ms. Alamuddin’s and Doughty Street’s next client in the dock was Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi.  Doughty Street Chambers, after all, DID release theofficial announcement of their engagement on the 28th of April.  After reviewing these dates, one has to ask, is Doughty Street’sannouncement of their engagement business-related?  Consider the intertwining dates of their announcement and Abdulla Senussi trial:

Abdulla Senussi enters a Libyan court asks for a lawyer (14th April).  Ms. Alamuddin & Mr. Clooney fly into Dubai to meet the in-laws and propose (22nd April).  Abdulla Senussi asks the court for an international lawyer (27th April).   Her Chambers’ announces (28th April) her engagement … and enter the frenzy of the international press.    An awaited Libyan response released by the ICC about Abdulla Senussi (1st May).  Back in London and into the engagement-media-frenzy as Ms. Alamuddin holds a Saturday press conference about Abdulla Senussi, failures of ICC and Libya as a failed state. (3rd May).  Abdulla Senussi’s May 8th ICC submission requests that Libya be referred to the UN Security Council (8th May) and was filed just before the ICC Prosecutor  goes to the Security Council on the 13th May, to give semi-annual assessment about Libya.  (13th May).   Either all the celestial stars were in alignment for this romantic/political/business moment or some considerable PR planning was involved.
The announcement and the predictable media frenzy suggest that the timing was to maximize the world coverage for Ms. Alamuddin’s May 3rd press conference.  Although she was Abdulla Senussi’s lawyer for 1 1/2 years, prior to the engagement, she received little personal international coverage.  Now, Lead Counsel Ben Emmerson now takes a backseat as all articles.   So we ask, did Mr. Clooney as with Yulia Tymoshenko, allow his celebrity status to propel the Doughty Street’s engagement announcement in order to draw awareness to another of his fiancée’s clients?   Client Abdulla Senussi?  The press conference did give her an international forum to air her grievances with the ICC.   And contrary to an[url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/en_menus/icc/press and media/press releases/Pages/pr953.aspx] ICC opinion [/url]of the Libyan justice system for her client, the world-wide press conference allowed her make contradictory, derogatory remarks about Libyan justice system.  “The whole point of the ICC is to be there when national systems can’t do the job, said Alamuddin, “Instead, it is giving a flawed, dangerous process the stamp of approval.”
In direct contradict to Ms. Alamuddin’s comments in the May 3rd press conference, the ICC Judges ruled on the 11th of October 2013 that Libya IS WILLING and ABLE to provide a fair trial for Abdulla Senussi.  Therefore, the ICC APPROVED of the justice system in which Abdulla Senussi will be tried.   Dare we say it; the Judges PRAISED the ‘Libyan competent authorities’ in their [url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/en_menus/icc/press and media/press releases/Pages/pr953.aspx]press release[/url].  Arabic PRESS RELEASE, English SUMMARY or PDF: Senussi 11October2013

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Nicky80
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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Thu Jul 24 2014, 22:44

Second article 

DOUGHTY STREET’S AMAL ALAMUDDIN, JOHN JONES AND WAYNE JORDASH & ALL THEIR LIBYAN CLIENTS

Doughty Street Chambers‘ members Amal Alamuddin, John Jones and Wayne Jordash represent three DIFFERENT Libyan clients on EITHER side of the SAME Libyan case at the ICC.   That is ALL the case’s participants… Everyone.

Simultaneously, Doughty Street’s Amal Alamuddinrepresents Abdulla Senussi,  Doughty Street’s John R.W.D. Jones represents Saif Gaddafi while on the opposing side Doughty Street’s Wayne Jordashrepresents Libya.   As a result, Doughty Street lawyers have filed briefs as part of a team to both retain Saif Gaddafi & Abdulla Senussi on Libyan soil AND to move them to the ICC in the Netherlands.

MATRIX CHAMBERS AND DOUGHTY STREET CHAMBERS

Sound familiar? Matrix Chambers’ members provided two teams that represented BOTH sides of the same issue facing Libya at the ICC.   Matrix Chambers was hired by Libyan Government’s Litigation Office to represent them at the ICC. As a result, Matrix lawyers IN TWO TEAMS coupled withDoughty Street lawyers have filed briefs before the ICC to both retain Abdulla Senussi and Saif Gaddafi on Libyan soil and to move them to the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands.

SEE our PDF: Matrix Chambers Members  This ICC Document andMatrix Chambers’ site demonstrates the interlaced world of London human rights lawyers, their law firms and their clients, in this case, Libya.  See Amal Alamuddin, John Jones and Wayne Jordash in the document to the right.

Doughty Street Chambers: Members articles discussing Saif Gaddafi’s legal options PRIOR to representing him.
Into the human rights mix, we include the links to a series of three articles about Libya, Muammar and Saif Gaddafi written by their Doughty Street founding partner, Geoffrey Robertson.  The excerpt from Geoffrey Robertson’s article, Why Libya Must Send Saif Gaddafi to the Hague details the skeleton argument for how he sees that “Saif has the making of an arguable defense.”  “He was, after all, a member of Libya’s legitimate government and thus entitled to urge and use force…”   It was published shortly after Saif was captured.  We note that Doughty Street Chamber’s John R.W.D. Jones is Saif’s ICC lawyer…  AND the Government of Libya has chosen within this environment a lawyer to represent THEIR rights, Wayne Jordash.  HERE, HERE, and HERE.

Aside from Founding Partner Geoffrey Robertson’s publicly offering the  argument for Saif’s defense, we offer Amal Alamuddin’s February 2012 contribution to Saif’s defense.

Her article is heavily slanted towards the ICC’s jurisdiction by being conveniently dismissive of Libya’s right to retain and try Saif in Libya.  Inaccurately, she argued that as the process has already begun, Libya’s ONLY option is to surrender Saif to the ICC.   Ms. Alamuddin DID mention that Libya has a legitimate option to end the ICC through the diplomatic channels, but only in her conclusion.   And Ms. Alamuddin went on to DISMISS Libya’s diplomatic right of Article 16 within a footnote. SEE our PDF: Amal Alamuddin’s article about Saif and ICC

Actually, in direct contrast to Ms. Alamuddin’s assessment,  her Libyan ICC colleague, a former legal adviser to the ICC prosecutor weighed in a few months earlier.   A notable international human rights lawyer himself, Dr. Payam Akhavan said that the International Criminal Court proceedings COULD BE CANCELLED through diplomatic channels.   That is through the United Nations’ Security Council.  CBC Interview start at 3:27.

We note that this simple, diplomatic option dismissed within Ms. Alamuddin’s footnote would END the international dimension of Saif Gaddafi’s celebrity case by sending to the diplomats, BEFORE the human rights lawyers got involved, BEFORE their ICC petitions started to flow, and BEFORE their per-hourly-legal-fees start to amass.
Why defend Abdulla Senussi?  Chris Stephen from The Guardian writes:

‘With the Senussi case active, Alamuddin will not be drawn on why she is defending a man many think deserves all he gets. One clue comes from fellow Doughty Street lawyer John Jones QC, who is defending Saif al-Islam: “Justice needs defence lawyers. The system only works if there’s robust advocacy on both sides.”
‘Robust advocacy’  is exactly what is happening as one law firm represent ALL participants in the case.  As all these barristers and their corresponding staff operate within the same physical proximity,  does the issue of a breach of confidentiality even raise an eyebrow?   It did for us.   For our understanding we did a short background of the UK Barrister System with respect to this issue.  Review of UK Barrister System

Set aside that it may be legal in the UK,  is it ethical?   The ethical freedom permitted to UK barristers is not ethical, legal or acceptable in much of the world, and most notably for their Libyan clientele, it is not legal in Libya.   Considering their Management Committee’s choice to represent ALL these Libyan clients, one could speculate that the pursuit of money, fame and potential book deals NOT human rights was Doughty Street Chambers’ motivation.   It seems that Matrix Chambers and Doughty Street Chambers have blurred the lines of a conflict of interest in order to accept ALL their Libyan clients.

As evidence we offer this video that can attest to Matrix Chamber’s decision to represent within different cases BOTH Libyan victims of torture and THEIR Libyan torturer.  This Tripoli TV video made on the 25th of January 2009, which shows Matrix Client Abdulla Senussi intimidating and berating Matrix Client Sami al-Saadi and Matrix Client Abdel Hakim Belhadj by threatening ‘to have their throats slit’.      Abdulla Senussi’s actions in this video are a violation of European Convention of Human Rights and the UK Human Rights Act of 1998 which Matrix Chambers, a human rights law firm, are well aware of the implication of his actions.   Here, Here and Here.  It is a violation of the essential rights protected by the Human Rights Act in Article 3:  The Right not to be subjected to torture, inhuman treatment or degrading treatment or punishment. 
As Ms. Alamuddin declined to offer a reason for her decision to defend Abdulla Senussi, we must dig deeper.
In a 12/2011 The Guardian article entitled Barrister fees spiral ever up as the economy trundles ever down.   The subhead isLife is rosy for the commercial bar with average revenue per barrister at £500,000…  This article starts:

As Britain lurches towards a double-dip recession, not everyone is struggling. Commercial barristers aren’t the sort to broadcast their success – indeed, their discretion is such that they can get rather annoyed with journalists who ask them to put a figure on it –but it’s no secret that they have been doing rather well of late.


The article proceeds: ‘ Figures published by The Lawyer magazine show barristers at 11 separate sets of chambers generating average annual revenue in excess of £500,000…’   We included the chart mentioned.  The Lawyer Magazine’s chart shows the top 30 firms in 2011 and the statistics including turnover, revenue per barrister in each of the 30 firms.  We consulted The Lawyer Magazine recently to find the current top 30.  After a little calculation, we discovered that of the 30, 5 were exclusively human rights firms or had human rights departments:  Blackstone Chambers, No5 Chambers,  One Crown Office Row, 4-5 Grays Inn Square and Matrix Chamber.  There seems to be serious money in the legal aspect of human rights.

The article noted: Matrix Chamber was ranked 25 of the 30. 

Leading human rights set Matrix Chambers is now in its 13th year and has grown threefold in that time. What started out as a 23-barrister set now boasts 23 QCs and 50 juniors.

We have to wonder how much of this prosperity is due to ALL the Libyan cases represented by Matrix Chambers.  

An update from the Authors:  Interested in financials of Doughty Street Chambers?  On 1st July 2014, we released a critique focusing on how the threeDoughty Street lawyers, Amal Alamuddin, John Jones and Wayne Jordash are financially compensated as they represent their Libyan clients.  Ms. Alamuddin’s compensation is from a private fund from an unnamed source. It could be controversial as UN Security Council Resolution 1970 may be involved. We will not know until the source is named.  Mr. Jones receives compensationfrom the ICC as it was “exceptionally decided to assume the costs of Mr Gaddafi’s legal representation on a provisional basis..”  An exceptional decision which is the result of a ICC legal precedent.  Mr. Jordash’s compensation is part of thelegions of London lawyers mostly in Matrix and Doughty Street Chambers that have made the legal expenses of the Libyan government run into millions.”   The  article is  John Jones, Amal Alamuddin & Libya: A Financial Cache of Libya’s ICC Case.

When we noticed this callous Doughty Street announcement of the final ICC judgment on Saif, and considering the threat of UN Sanctions that is looming over Libya, we feel the need to re-emphasize the scandal of the TWO law firms hired to represent the best interest of the Libyan People.   Members of each law firm chose to represent the opposing side at the ICC while simultaneously representing Libya. 


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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Thu Jul 24 2014, 22:51

Third Article about Amal is mainly in the middle towards the end. Her name is in Bold hope you see it hehe



JOHN JONES, AMAL ALAMUDDIN & LIBYA: A FINANCIAL CACHE OF LIBYA’S ICC CASE

ohn Jones’ Appointment is Marred in Controversy:  The ICC’s Registrar warns of  ‘favoured treatment’ to Saif with his legal aid AND ‘cautions against setting a precedent’ over the appointment of John Jones.   The ICC’s Chambers dismissed the ‘cautions’, side-stepped existing Court regulations to set an ICC legal precedent.  
If we had the option of a sub-headline, this would be it.

Let’s start with The Telegraph Article


Under the headline, British taxpayer funds defence of Gaddafi’s son: The International Criminal Court sparks outrage over its decision to pay for a barrister for Saif Gaddafi, The Telegraph’s Robert Mendick and Robert Verkaik wrote a daring article discussing the financial issues of Doughty Street Chambers and their Libyan clients.  As we said in our previousarticles, Doughty Street Chambers’  Amal Alamuddin, John R.W.D. Jones and Wayne Jordash represent three DIFFERENT Libyan clients on EITHER side of the SAME Libyan case at the ICC.  That is ALL the case’s participants.  The June 8th article stated:

In a statement issued to The Telegraph the court said it had “exceptionally decided to assume the costs of Mr Gaddafi’s legal representation on a provisional basis until such time as an assessment of his disposable means has been conducted”.


Our discussion will focus on the financial issues of the three Doughty Street Lawyers as they represent their Libyan clients; Abdulla Senussi, Saif Gaddafi and the Government of Libya.  Finally, we are able to provide confirmation from the lawyers themselves about their legal fees and origins of payment.   We, of course, will draw some inference from these financial disclosures.  For that, we thank The Telegraph.

John R.W.D. Jones and his client Saif Gaddafi


Melinda Taylor revisited: 
The world is certainly a small place:  John Jones’ recommendation to the ICC’s Judges as the new legal representative of Saif Gaddafi came from none other than Melinda Taylor.  The world remembers Melinda Taylor as the ICC public defender that while visiting her client, Saif Gaddafi in Zintan was taken into custody in June 2012.  Allegations against Ms. Taylor and her three colleagues included possession of spy equipment and assorted documents, including a coded letter from Saif’s office manager, Colonel Mohamed Ismail.  Although allegations were neither proved nor disproved, Saif is on trial for charges resulting from that incident.

We do note the ICC’sletter of regret to Libya for the incident “[url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/Pages/PageNotFoundError.aspx?requestUrl=http://www.icc-cpi.int/menus/icc/press and media/press releases/news and highlights/pr815]does not exist[/url]“ any longer on the ICC site.  Nor is the link available in several international sites Here, Here , Here & Here, as it was reported at the time. Although reported in the International Bar Association’s IBA ICC Programme: Fair Trial Digest May-June 2012 issue,  “The ICC promised a full investigation into any misconduct…”, we were unable to find any evidence of an ICC investigation or conclusion of Ms. Taylor and her colleagues’ actions.

owever, we are able to provide Ms. Taylor’s post-release PDFentitled: Statement in Defense of Saif al-Islam Gaddafi. The speech was given on July 6th 2012 in The Hague.SEE: MelindaTaylor Press-Release  We also note that at the time, the Doughty Street-associated ILawyer blog mentioned their support and friendship with Ms. Taylor.  ‘The iLawyer are friends and colleagues of Ms. Melinda Taylor.’ Although, Mr. Jones was not mentioned as an iLawyer in that PDF issue, (he was later), there were OTHER fellow Doughty Street members such Amal Alamuddin and Wayne Jordash.

Melinda Taylor at the International Criminal Court


Melinda Taylor is a member of ICC’s Office of Public Counsel for the Defence, OPCD, (a.k.a. the Public Defender’s Office).  After visiting and receiving approval from Saif,  Ms. Taylor and Xavier-Jean Keïta were appointed to represent him in April 2012 by the ICC’s Chambers or judges. (page 3)    However, within a year of appointment, Ms. Taylor and Mr. Keïta, citing ‘an imminent depletion in staffing will disrupt the continuity of Mr Gaddafi’s representation’ as the basis of the  ‘request to withdraw’, the OPCD applied to the Chambers to remove their office as counsel for Saif Gaddafi.  Further, Ms. Taylor and Mr. Keïta requested that Judges ‘ recognise the appointment of John R.W.D. Jones as replacement defence counsel for Mr Gaddafi (the “Request”). (page 3)   SEE PDF: Request to Withdraw

4. On 4 March 2013, the OPCD requested the authorisation of the Chamber to (i) withdraw its counsels’ representation of Mr Gaddafi pursuant to regulation 78 of the Regulations, and (ii)recognise the appointment of John R.W.D. Jones as replacement defence counsel for Mr Gaddafi (the “Request”). The OPCD also requested that the Chamber confirm Mr Gaddafi’s entitlement to legal assistance under the legal aid scheme of the Court.^

John Jones’ controversial appointment.  The Chambers’ decision on OPCD’s ‘Request to Withdraw’ set an ICC legal precedent.


Melinda Taylor and her office’s recommendation of John Jones set off a firestorm within the International Criminal Court.   The issue of the appointment prompted various branches of the ICC such the Office of the Registrar, the administrators of the Court, to be pitted against the OPCD, John Jones and the Court’s Judges.  So vehement in their convictions, each side made their writs public. Apparently, airing the ICC’s dirty laundry is rare because it was noted by the judges.  Over several months written requests, observations and Chambers’ decisions saw the participants hurling insults and making allegations of ‘…contain inaccurate or potentially misleading statements of fact or procedure’ (page 4) and …cautions against setting a precedent’  (page 5) and ‘…questions the competence of the Registrar’ (page 5) and  ‘…committed an unreasonable error’ ([url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1628202.pdf#search=THE CHAMBERS REGISTRAR sAIF GADDAFI 2013]page 4[/url]) and ‘…has fettered his discretion incorrectly and unreasonably’ ([url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1628202.pdf#search=THE CHAMBERS REGISTRAR sAIF GADDAFI 2013]page 4[/url]).
Or (page 5):

’10…The Registrar further highlights that the Request is not based on a legitimate ground for withdrawal under article 18 of the Code of Professional Conduct for counsel’  (Taylor and Keïta)
Or (page 5):
Registrar:  ’11. With respect to counsel from the OPCD’s suggestion as to their replacement, the Registrar cautions against setting a precedent whereby counsel (Taylor and Keïta) would be permitted to select his or her replacement
Or ([url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1628202.pdf#search=THE CHAMBERS REGISTRAR sAIF GADDAFI 2013]page 19[/url]):
Registrar:  ‘To grant Counsel’s (John Jones) Request to Review would be in practical terms tantamount to changing a concrete aspect of the Court’s legal aid system as adopted, setting a precedent that is in contradiction of the black letter of the law as it concerns the policy scheme governing the Court’s legal aid system’
Or ([url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1605859.pdf#search=12 March 2013%2C the Registrar]page 7[/url]):
Registrar: ‘What is impressible is to disregard these specific and to give a favoured treatment to beneficiary of legal aid resources over others, as is being asked by Counsel (John Jones) in his Request for Review.’


To Give a favored treatment’ to Saif  is the exact result of Ms. Taylor’s and the OPCD’s recommendation.  The Chambers’ decision on ‘Request to Withdraw’ in the case of Prosecutor v. Saif al-Islam Gaddafi and Abdullah Senussi set a legal precedent that encompasses various legal principles.  On these legal principles, the Registrar forewarned the Chambers.
The Registrar cautioned the Chambers that the OPCD’s ‘Request is not based on a legitimate ground for withdrawal under article 18 of the Code of Professional Conduct for counsel’. (page 5)  The Registrar is referring to:  ‘The OPCD submits that an imminent depletion in staffing will disrupt the continuity of Mr Gaddafi’s representation…’ ( page 4) The basis of the ‘depletion of staffing’ was the expiration of a translator’s renewable employment contract!

The Registrar cautioned the Chambers: ‘against setting a precedent whereby counsel  would be permitted to select his or her replacement.’  (page 5)  The Chambers dismissed the Registrar’s warnings and accepted the OPCD’s recommendation.  The Chamber’s ‘considers that the practical impediments to the provision of timely and effective legal representation to Mr Gaddafi by counsel from the OPCD, as set out in the Request, make it necessary and appropriate to accept the request for withdrawal and to appoint an alternative legal representative…’ (page 6)
The Chambers DID NOT heed the ‘cautions’ of the Registrar. SEE PDF: Observations of the Registrar

Judges accepted the OPCD’s recommendation for John Jones

As noted by the Registrar, for the Chambers to accept the OPCD’s recommendation for the appointment of John Jones was to violate existing regulations thereby setting a legal precedent. (page 5)  A Legal precedent.  In common law legal systems, a precedent or authority is a legal case establishing a principle or rule that a court or other judicial body adopts when deciding later cases with similar issues or facts.  SEE PDF: Decision on Request for Review of Registrar’s Decision by the Defence
The Registrar: ’11. With respect to counsel from the OPCD’s suggestion as to their replacement, the Registrar cautions against setting a precedent whereby counsel would be permitted to select his or her replacement,…

The Chambers opted to bypass the Registrar’s warnings altogether and exercise regulation 76(1), with their interpretation of The Regulations of the Court. The Chamber wrote: (Page 7)
’20. Accordingly, the Chamber considers it to be in the interests of justiceto appoint Mr John R.W.D. Jones to represent Mr Gaddafi pursuant to regulation 76(1) of the Regulations, as a provisional measure, until Mr Gaddafi exercises his right to freely choose counsel under article 67(1 )(d) of the Statute, or until the definitive disposal of proceedings related to the Admissibility Challenge, at which point the question of Mr Gaddafi’s legal representation will be revisited by the Chamber.’
We note that the Chambers is referring to Regulation 76,  Appointment of Defence Counsel by a Chamber  (page 45)
’1. A Chamber, following consultation with the Registrar, may appoint counsel in the circumstances specified in the Statute and the Rules or where the interests of justice so require…’

The Chambers did technically consult the Registrar but dismissed his warnings.  The Chambers instead embraced the  OPCD’s recommendation stating the Chamber considers it to be in the interests of justice to appoint Mr John R.W.D. Jones to represent Mr Gaddafi.’  We did not read in Regulation of the Court 76.1  that the Chambers should consult the OPCD.  Under Regulation 73, the selection of a replacement, the duty counsel, is from a ‘roster’ of available counsel maintained by and is within the purview of the Registrar’s duties NOT the OPCD’s duties.

The Fallout


The Chambers’ legal precedent set in the case of Prosecutor v. Saif al-Islam Gaddafi and Abdullah Senussi encompasses various legal principles within the case.  The legal principles open for new legal interpretation include (1) the OPCD may ‘request to withdraw’ for reasons ‘not based on a legitimate ground for withdrawal under article 18 of the Code of Professional Conduct for counsel’, (2) The OPCD may recommend their replacement from outside law firms, (3) The Chambers may force the Registrar to provide legal aid under many ways including theoretically to a defendant with money.  These principles raised in the ‘Request to Withdraw’ open the door for new interpretations for other lawyers to argue before the court.
This precedent also forced the Registrar to reinterpret the regulations of legal aid in order to ensure that Saif received legal assistance so that John Jones could be paid.

Legal aid for Saif Gaddafi


The Chambers commented that it is not their purview to decide on legal aid as ‘…regulations vest responsibility for the elaboration and management of the legal assistance scheme of the Court in the Registrar.’  (point 21 page 7).  Under Regulation 130, Legal aid decisions are within the purview of the Registrar.  However,  as the court allowed the OPCD (ICC-paid public defenders)  to withdrawal AND appointed John Jones, it FORCED the Registrar to give Saif legal assistance in order to pay John Jones.  The Registrar noted that the usual procedures were not followed. 84.1 and 84.2  Mandatory forms were not completed (regulation 131) and the proof of indigence investigation did not occur. (regulation 132) The Registrar’s office wrote:

Given these circumstances, the interests and the proper administration of justice required an exceptional response from the Registry to ensure that the rights of Mr Gaddafi to legal representation are safeguarded in accordance with the legal texts of the Court. As such, the Registry decided to provisionally assume the costs of Mr Gaddafi’s legal representation until such time an assessment of his disposable means has been conducted and a decision on his indigence rendered following the normal procedures..

This observation explains The Telegraph‘s highlighted comment.  We reiterate that by allowing  OPCD to withdrawal and appointing John Jones, the Chambers thereby made legal assistance mandatory to safeguard the rights enshrined in the Court.    John Jones filed requests for even more money but it was[url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1628202.pdf#search=THE CHAMBERS REGISTRAR sAIF GADDAFI 2013]rejected[/url].  The Registrar vehemently cautioned: ([url=http://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1628202.pdf#search=THE CHAMBERS REGISTRAR sAIF GADDAFI 2013]page 19[/url]),
‘…when Counsel’s request – on scope or otherwise – requires in effect an actual change to a concrete aspect of the Court’s legal aid system itself – as is the case here – there is less room for judicial intervention.  To grant Counsel’s (John Jones) Request to Review would be in practical terms tantamount to changing a concrete aspect of the Court’s legal aid system as adopted, setting a precedent that is in contradiction of the black letter of the law as it concerns the policy scheme governing the Court’s legal aid system.’
A Contradictory Interview
There is some contradictory information to the above mentioned ICC documents.  On the 24th of April 2014, Mr. Jones gave an interview.  An excerpt quote:
TR: Are you appointed by the ICC or did Mr. Gaddafi hire you?
JJ: I was appointed by Mr. Gaddafi’s family in April 2013. Mr. Gaddafi has no way of directly appointing a lawyer, as he is being held in incommunicado detention. Mr. Gaddafi had previously indicated to the ICC’s Office of Public Counsel for the Defense that he wanted his family to designate his counsel.
The ICC has recognized that appointment, and I am remunerated under the ICC’s legal aid scheme, not by Mr. Gaddafi or his family.


A few questions come to mind from several parts of his statement:

‘I was appointed by Mr. Gaddafi’s family in April 2013.’  We found NO EVIDENCE in any ICC document dated March –August 2013 that Mr. Jones EVER INFORMED the ICC he ‘was appointed by Mr. Gaddafi’s family in April 2013.’  In fact, the Chambers on April 17th 2013 decided ‘ to appoint Mr John R.W.D. Jones to represent Mr Gaddafi pursuant to regulation 76(1) of the Regulations, as a provisional measure, until Mr. Gaddafi exercises his right to freely choose counselunder article 67(1) (d) of the Statute…’   The Chambers reconfirmed this order on July 30th 2013.  In those official ICC documents, John Jones made

NO DISCLOSURE to the Court that he in fact was appointed by the Gaddafi family.  Why?

I am remunerated under the ICC’s legal aid scheme, not by Mr. Gaddafi or his family’ The significance of Mr. Jones’s FAILURE TO DISCLOSE is that during this time, the ICC Judges and Registrar were determining Mr. Jones’ remuneration under the ICC legal aid scheme.  Would the ICC have allowed Saif to receive legal aid IF they knew about Mr. Jones’ appointment from the Gaddafi family?

‘Mr. Gaddafi had previously indicated to the ICC’s Office of Public Counsel for the Defense that he wanted his family to designate his counsel.’  The  OPCD’s Ms. Taylor and Mr. Keïta, citing ‘an imminent depletion in staffing’ as the basis of their request to withdraw and the recommendation of John Jones to replace them.  We found NO EVIDENCE in the applicable ICC documents from March to July 30th 2013 that Ms. Taylor and Mr. Keïta notified the court of Saif Gaddafi’s wishes.  As a result, Mr. Jones’ statement is a discrepancy with the OPCD’s official statement.   Why did the OPCD withhold this information?   Given Mr. Jones’ variant statement, we have to wonder what is the real basis of the OPCD’s request to withdraw and John Jones’ recommendation? 


‘The ICC Recognized THAT appointment.’  Exactly which appointment?  Is that The ICC appointment OR the Gaddafi family appointment?

Amal Alamuddin and Abdulla Senussi.


The Telegraph article noted a source of funding for Ms. Alamuddin and the entire Senussi legal team:
‘The case has drawn in the actor George Clooney’s fiancée Amal Alamuddin, who is representing Gaddafi’s former torturer-in-chief, Abdullah al-Senussi, before the same court. Senussi’s legal team is being privately funded.’

‘Senussi’s legal team is privately funded.’  ‘Privately funded’ is a legally evasive answer.  If the Senussi legal team is unwilling to disclose the source of the private fund, an investigation is warranted as Resolution 1970 is still in effect.  If the money is coming from a source financially associated with Abdulla Senussi, it is subject to UN Security Council Resolution 1970 and should be frozen as assets of the Libyan Government.

Although Senussi’s assets were frozen, it occurred on the 17th of March 2011,  a month later than the Gaddafis and one can conclude it left time to hide the assets.  Note that ‘Senussi’s legal team through the ICC process has been in contact with Abdulla Senussi’s daughter, Anoud.  In fact, The Independent’s article dated 31stOctober 2013, stated that Ben Emmerson met Anoud. ‘Mr Emmerson said in Cairo after meeting Anoud earlier this month…’      


Ms. Senussi’s contribution to the political article, was the human touch:

‘Senussi’s 20-year-old daughter, Anoud, has described to The Independent how she saw her father in prison in Libya “apparently beaten on the eyes and nose, very weak and weighing less than 35 kilos”…’
Ms. Alamuddin is in personal contact with Anoud as well.  In her May 3rdpress conference, Chris Stephen of The Guardian noted that:
‘When she (Alamuddin) failed to get a visa for Libya, or even permission to speak to her client by phone, she sought out Senussi’s daughter, Anoud…’


George Clooney’s fiancée.  Finally, Ms. Alamuddin is engaged to a potential Democratic candidate for the 2018 California’s Governor Race, this evasive answer is not sufficient to satisfy the American Public OR the Republican National Committee (GOP).  When entering American politics, the doors are hurled open to ALL the previous financial dealings and business associations of a potential politician AND his wife to scrutiny by the American public.  This scrutiny will magnify ten-fold as California poised to regain No. 8 ranking in global economy  and she is a member of the New York Bar.

We suggest that Ms.  Alamuddin disclose NOW the source of the private fund before it festers and the RNC start to make speculations.  Before headlines begin to surface such as Did George Clooney’s Fiancee receive payment from Frozen Assets of the Libyan People?  or Did George Clooney’s Fiancee receive money from Gaddafi’s Niece?   Finally, if it is subject to the assets freeze of 1970, return the money to its rightful owners, the Libyan people.   SEE PDF: UN Security Council Resolution 1970

Libya compensating the London Law firms and Article 16 of the Rome Statute


John Jones made a backhanded comment comparing ICC fees paid to him to fees paid to Libya’s lawyers.  Mr. Jones’ comparison gave us theFIRST insider accounting of the money that Libya has been paying to Matrix Chambers and his Doughty Street Chambers. (Doughty Street’s Wayne Jordash also represents Libya.)
Mr Jones told The Telegraph that his £70-an-hour legal fees were “minimal” and the UK taxpayer’s contribution “infinitesimally small”,whereas the legal expenses of the Libyan government ran into millions.

Mr. Jones said the ‘legal expenses of the Libyan government ran into millions.’  We have to ask why? The case could have been cancelled diplomatically WITHOUT HIRING ONE law firm.  Who told the Libyan Government’s Litigation Office to the foot the bill with these offices?

We stated in our first article and any related one since: Libya had the diplomatic OPTION under article 16 of Rome Statute to ask the Security Council to CANCEL the ICC proceedings.   Dr. Payam Akhavan, former legal adviser to the ICC prosecutor’s office and presently representing Libya at the ICC said it COULD BE CANCELLED through diplomatic channels, i.e. the United Nations’ Security Council. (See his quote in our other articles.)

In other words, the Court has NO RIGHT to Saif or Abdulla Senussi if the Security Council withdraws that referral to the ICC.  The mechanism Dr. Akhavan refers to is Article 16 of the Rome Statue See hisvideo and start at 3:27. 
In fact, Article 16 is actually mentioned in UN Security Council resolution 1970.
‘Recalling article 16 of the Rome Statute under which no investigation or Prosecution may be commenced or proceeded with by the International Criminal Court for a period of 12 months after a Security Council request to that effect,…’
Although experts say the wording in this resolution was to avert prosecution of Muammar and Saif IFthey surrendered,  but we note that it was AVAILABLE to the Libyan diplomats too.   As we have said before, this simple, diplomatic option would END the international dimension of Saif Gaddafi’s celebrity case by sending to the diplomats, BEFORE the human rights lawyers got involved, BEFORE their ICC petitions started to flow, and BEFORE their per-hourly-legal-fees start to amass.

An American Legal Assessment


We consulted an American attorney to provide a legal assessment of the law firms taking in consideration Dr. Akhavan’s interview, Article 16 of the Rome Statute and the fact that the Libyan Mission DID NOT approach the Security Council to exercise this option. An excerpt:
Therefore, as an New York Attorney, I believe that (i) either the Matrix Chambers did not advice Libya to take the issue to the Security Council and by doing that Matrix violated the Bar Standard Board Code of Conduct, or (ii) Matrix law firm did advise Libya on such option but the Libyan decision makers opted to face the ICC and paid millions of dollars to Matrix and Doughty Street Chambers.  Accordingly, it opens the door to speculation on the motives of the Libyan Government officials.  
I would note that as experts in the ICC legal procedures, Matrix Chambers lawyers would have known of Article 16, Libya’s diplomatic option.  Further and more incriminatory to the team is the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview given by Matrix team member Dr. Payam Akhavan on November 20, 2011.  His legal opinion was given prior to representing Libya. “One final point is that the Libyan case has been put before the Court by the Security Council referral and there is …huh… Libya has never signed the statute of the court, so the court only has jurisdiction because of the UN Security Council referral and the Security Council could decide to withdrawal that referral in deference to the Libyan government.   In which case, the ICC prosecutor would have no leg to stand on…”
However, despite of his legal opinion mentioned above, Dr. Akhavan accepted the assignment to represent Libya before the ICC.   The question is did Dr. Akhavan, a New York attorney, inform Libya of article 16 as he is required by the New York Lawyer’s Code of Professional Responsibility?  A British Barrister and a New York Attorney are required to provide their clients with all available options.
We reiterate: ‘ (i) either the Matrix Chambers did not advice Libya to take the issue to the Security Council and by doing that Matrix violated the Bar Standard Board Code of Conduct, or (ii) Matrix law firm did advise Libya on such option but the Libyan decision makers opted to face the ICC and paid millions of dollars to Matrix and Doughty Street Chambers…’
We will be blunt:  Are the UK and US lawyers able to verify that they DID inform Libya of ALL its legal options?  If so, what were the motives of the Libya Government officials?  Either way someone should inform the Libyan People why ‘the legal expenses of the Libyan government ran into millions.’?
 
A Conclusion


Considering the missteps, the legal precedent, and the  ‘favoured treatment’  of the Chambers so far,COULD LIBYA EXPECT a fair trial for Saif at the ICC?  One has to wonder.  As you evaluate, consider the two points raised in this discussion and four more before making a definitive determination -if the ICC is projected to provide a fair trial.  AND if you find something a miss, something exceptional, somethingconspiratory about the way the ICC has been handling Saif’s case, voice your opinion.
Point One: The legal precedent set by the ICC Chambers in order to accommodate the appointment of John Jones and the subsequent way legal aid was given to Saif.
Point Two: Melinda Taylor and ICC colleagues’ investigation of ‘misconduct’ promised by the ICC Judges to Libya but did not materialize.
Consider these next four facts:
Ratko Mladic
Point Three: The embarrassing case of Ratko Mladic who was on trial at the ICC for the Srebrenica massacre.  Mladic is now essentially a free man as his trial is suspended indefinitely due to a simple procedural error by the prosecutor.  And if the same errors occur during Saif’s ICC trial, who will explain to the victims of 42 years of Gaddafi rule and the 2011 Revolution?
The world remembers Ratko Mladic as the military commander who allegedly ‘…had organised the round-up, murder and burial of 8,000 Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica.’
 Blunder at ‘Butcher of Bosnia’ trial: Judge suspends hearing indefinitely because of ‘errors by prosecution’ say The Daily Mail. The Telegraph wrote:

On another embarrassing day for international justice, the judge ordered a halt to proceedings after it emerged that the prosecution had failed to disclose millions of pages of evidence to the former general’s defence team.


 The extraordinary blunder is a severe blow to the reputation of the UN’s International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia


Accidents do happen.  In the case of Ratko Mladic, a simple prosecution procedural error left his case suspended indefinitely and Mladic a free man.

Point Four: we note that on the 27th November 2011, an individual contacted the Registrar on behalf of another individual asking to be appointed to represent the ‘interest of Saif Gaddafi’.  We cannot tell you who contacted the
ICC  as those names have been blackened-out to hide their identity


Why? Who is powerful enough to contact the court for Saif’s benefit and then have their identity expunged by the court?    SEE PDF: Hidden Identity ICC doc1283037

6. On 30 November 2011, the Registry confidentially filed the “Observations of the Registrar pursuant to communication received on the 27 November 2011” (“Registry Observations”), 15 wherein the Registrar: (i) indicates that a call had been received, allegedly from  ———————–, asking that  ——————– be appointed to represent the interests of Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi,^^ (ii) indicates that Saif Al Islam Gaddafi is held incommunicado at this time^^ and (iii) proposes to provisionally  accept this irregular mandate in order to allow —————–to intervene in the proceedings pending verification of the accuracy of this mandate from Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi himself.^^’

Why would the International Criminal Court hide the identity of these supporters of Saif Gaddafi?

John Jones stumbles


Point Five:  On the discourse of Saif’s innocence, consider the serious misstep by John Jones.  Does he know something about Saif’s innocence, we do not?  Consider an expert in ICC litigation, and posed to ‘head up’ the recently announced Doughty Street International-The Hague, set to openin September, Mr. Jones stumbled about resolution 1970 and ‘Saif’ assets’ when questioned in The Telegraph article:
“If Saif Gaddafi were transferred to the ICC, as the ICC has ordered, then he might be in a position to apply for a de-blocking of his assets to allow payment of his reasonable legal expenses,” said Mr Jones in an email sent on Friday. “But Libya refuses to surrender him to the court, and the UK, from what I have seen, is doing nothing to put pressure on Libya to surrender Saif Gaddafi to the court. So again the UK bears a measure of blame for this situation.”
In a subsequent email sent on Saturday, Mr Jones suggested that Gaddafi did not actually have assets abroad.
Mr Jones said: “I should just say, further to this subject, I have been informed that Saif Gaddafi has no assets or secret bank accounts anywhere in the world which could be de-blocked. If you don’t have any evidence or reliable information that he does have any assets … it would be irresponsible to assert that he does.”

As the Libyan proverb says, “What is on your mind will ruin your answer.”  Does Mr. Jones know something about Saif re-acquiring ‘his assets’ that we do not?

Skulduggery’ at The International Criminal Court


Point Six: We note that others have accused the ICC Chambers of playing political games.  We concur but with the most unlikely source: Ben Emmerson.  We say, if Ben Emmerson believes that ‘There’s a spot of skulduggery going on in the International Criminal Court (ICC) at The Hague, it is good enough for us.
Considered a black box with all the secrets of between MI6, the CIA and Gaddafi’s security regime, it has been suggested that Abdulla Senussi’s trial could divulge all those embarrassing secrets. So best to leave to him and all his secrets in Libya.  The Independent’s article:
There’s a spot of skulduggery going on in the International Criminal Court (ICC) at The Hague. Not to put too fine a point upon it, a lot of questions are being asked about why the worshipful judges have, at least publicly, demanded a trial in Europe for Saif el-Islam al-Gaddafi – son of the late Muammar – but have blithely accepted that the dictator’s ruthless security boss, Abdullah al-Senussi, should be tried in the militia-haunted chaos of Libya.
Was this because the court didn’t want to upset Libya’s anarchic authorities by insisting that it try both men at The Hague? Or is there an ulterior, far more sinister purpose: to prevent Senussi blurting out details in The Hague of his cosy relationship with Western security services when he was handling relations between Gaddafi, the CIA and MI6?
Finally, as Senussi Lead Counsel Ben Emmerson concluded:
‘The ICC had ruled that Libya was “not fit to try Saif Gaddafi”, said Mr Emmerson. “The same standard must equally apply to Mr Senussi who is charged in the same case with Saif Gaddafi in Libya.”
We agree with only a slight modification.
‘The ICC had ruled that Libya was “fit to try Abdulla Senussi”, said The New Libya Report. ‘The same standard must equally apply to Mr. Gaddafi who is charged in the same case with Abdulla Senussi in Libya.’

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Thu Jul 24 2014, 22:56

Here is one of Amals articles written by her, sorry I can't copy and past it is a stupid PDF and gives me a strange layout when I copy.

Does Libya have to Surrender Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi to The Hague? 


By Amal Alamuddin, February 2012

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Thu Jul 24 2014, 23:00

A report about her article

AMAL ALAMUDDIN: DISMISSING LIBYA’S LEGITIMATE LEGAL RIGHT SINCE 2012


We have been following Ms. Alamuddin’s involvement with the Libyan legal issues prior to becoming part of Abdulla Senussi’s legal team with lead council, Matrix Chambers’ Ben Emmerson.  Back then it seemed that the only subject was Saif Gaddafi.

At the time, we found an article by Ms. Alamuddin.  Once connected by a link to the Lawyers for Justice in Libya, LFJL site, it is no longer available.  Nor is it available on her iLawyer Blog where Ms. Alamuddin is a co-iLawyer with her fellow Doughty Street Chambers‘ member, John R.W.D. Jones.    John Jones is well known as Saif Gaddafi’s ICC lawyer.  

Ms. Alamuddin authored the article in February 2012 and then …”Considered a high-flier in the close-knit world of international lawyers, Alamuddin was hired for the case by Ben Emmerson QC.”

Her article is heavily slanted towards the ICC’s jurisdiction by being sarcastic and overwhelmingly negative for Libya’s right to retain and try Saif in Libya.  She argued that as the process has already begun, Libya’s ONLY option is to surrender Saif to the ICC.   Ms. Alamuddin DID mention that Libyahas a legitimate option to end the ICC through the diplomatic channels, but only in her conclusion.   And Ms. Alamuddin went on to DISMISS Libya’s diplomatic right within a footnote.

We note that this simple, diplomatic option dismissed within Ms. Alamuddin’s footnote would END the international dimension of Saif Gaddafi’s case BEFORE the celebrity international lawyers got involved, BEFORE the ICC petitions started to flow, and BEFORE the human rights lawyers’ per-hourly-fees started to amass.

Actually, in direct contrast to Ms. Alamuddin’s assessment,  her colleague, a former legal advisor to the ICC prosecutor weighed in a few months earlier.   A notable international human rights lawyer himself, Dr. Payam Akhavan said that the International Criminal Court proceedings COULD BE CANCELLED through diplomatic channels.   That is through the United Nations’ Security Council.  We quote this former legal advisor to the prosecutor’s office of the International Criminal Court:
“One final point is that the Libyan case has been put before the Court by the Security Council referral and there is …huh… Libya has never signed the statute of the court, so the court only has jurisdiction because of the UN Security Council referral and the Security Council could decide to withdrawal that referral in deference to the Libyan government.   In which case, the ICC prosecutor would have no leg to stand on…”  
In other words, the Court has NO RIGHT to Saif or Abdulla Senussi if the Security Council withdraws that referral to the ICC, as it would thereby cancel the ICC proceedings.   The mechanism he refers to is Article 16 of the Rome Statue.  ROME STATUTE
Article 16 Deferral of Investigation or Prosecution:  No investigation or prosecution may be commenced or proceeded with under this Statute for a period of 12 months after the Security Council, in a resolution adopted under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, has requested the court to that effect, that request may be renewed by the Council under the same conditions.
The former legal advisor to the ICC’s prosecutor’s office gave this interview on CBC News the night that Saif was captured.  Dr. Payam Akhavan is a member of the team of human rights lawyers and ICC experts REPRESENTING Libya before the ICC in the case of Saif and Abdulla Senussi.  His opinion was given prior to representing Libya, in a  November 20, 2011 CBC televised interview.

We reiterate that in direct contradiction to Dr. Akhavan, Ms. Alamuddin dismissed Libya’s Diplomatic Option of Article 16 of the Rome Statue within a footnote.  See our copy of the presently-hard-to-locate 
Doughty Street Chambers:  Amal Alamuddin and her co-counsel AND ALL their Libyan clients in the Libyan International Criminal Court case.   Is there a conflict of interest ?  Amal Alamuddin, John R.W.D. Jones  and Wayne Jordash are co-iLawyers for the iLawyer blog.  These three lawyers simultaneously represents three DIFFERENT clients on BOTH sides of the Libyan ICC case.   Although on OPPOSITE sides in the dispute they are all members in the SAME law firm: Doughty Street Chambers.    Amal Alamuddin represents Abdulla Senussi, John R.W.D. Jones represents Saif Gaddafi and Wayne Jordash represents the Government of Libya.
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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Thu Jul 24 2014, 23:10

Is this the same report she wrote for ilawyer updated by her in April as I posted in ....'her work' thread yesterday?

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Thu Jul 24 2014, 23:18

What you posted in her work thread (see link below) was her article about Syria this one above is about Libyan. Or am I confused and have a blond moment????

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Thu Jul 24 2014, 23:22

No, you're right, Nicky! I'm the non-blonde having a blonde moment!

This from the ICC

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Alisonfan on Thu Jul 24 2014, 23:42

For anyone interested, please read this article from the BBC it's a couple of years old, I have posted about this before ultimately it is all of us who pay the Lawyers at the ICC.  


Lawyers there earn huge sums all tax free.

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Basically 900 million dollars and just one conviction (as of 2012)

There is NOTHING "human rights" about some of these international lawyers.

Now it appears, their hefty over generous pay checks AA?(funding) comes from the poorest of the poor, who have suffered so much, yet carry on.

Surely George cannot be so in love to find this palatable.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Thu Jul 24 2014, 23:54

Alison, I think that massive expenditure includes everything at the ICC ie the building facilities, the staff employed there, the judges, court clerks, translators etc. Otherwise the lawyers employed for the only two cases that have come before the court so far would be multi-millionaires!!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Fri Jul 25 2014, 00:44

He may not have found out where her money is coming from until they started working on the pre-nup and by then it was too late - or maybe he doesn't care - he's "in love" and she can do no wrong. (If that's the case, shame on him - he's a fool, which until now I never thought he was.)
I'm sure she thinks of all this as legal "business as usual", but I hope he can influence her to apply ethics to her career. The "everyone deserves a defense" argument doesn't fly so high when you're making a mint playing both sides of the fence.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Atalante on Fri Jul 25 2014, 10:46

Nice to see some interesting critical posts ! A must read for some of my critics who think I am so annoying.  geek George's political connections come in handy for Amal no ?  Laughing

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Fri Jul 25 2014, 12:26

Atalante wrote: George's political connections come in handy for Amal no ?  

No, Atalante, George's political connections don't really come in handy for Amal. He's friends with the president - so what? Obama has plentyof problems of his own - he doesn't have time to think about Amal. And George's other political connections, I would think, are primarily in California politics - again, not helpful to Amal.

More likely Amal's political connections will wreak havoc on any political ambitions George may have. On a personal level she may be the sweetest person on earth, but politically she's poison - at least in US politics. If even his fans are disturbed by her politics, imagine what the opposition would do with her.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by phys major on Fri Jul 25 2014, 13:19

FINALLY people are opening up there EYES !!!
UNFORTUNATELY THEY IS NO LOVE STORY JUST EVIL GREED!!!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Fri Jul 25 2014, 13:50

Sorry phys major, but IMO this proves just the opposite. As a political/career move this isn't good for either of them. Therefore, it must be love.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Alisonfan on Fri Jul 25 2014, 15:54

JMO, but I think this may provide a clue to why the quick engagement.

HE WAS DAZZLED!

I would be, if I were single and looking for lurve. and I met someone who introduced themselves as a "Human Right Lawyer", if she was standing there with her Mother and had the sweetest smile, cooky dress sense, and an honesty and integrity of opinion that was both intelligent and bafflingly out of my league of reference.  Not bad looking, and joy of joy the RIGHT AGE GROUP. 

Dazzled is the least I would be!

Add to all the above, mystery(Druze), international travel, wealthy, work ethic, hugely admired within her exciting and newsworthy field (remember GB glowing ref;)  You get the picture.

Which of us, if we met someone like this, would want to, or even think of looking deeper.  At this stage you have unleashed the dragon, you have allowed LOVE in the door(and he may have shut the door many times before).  There is no turning back, LOVE is the best feeling in the world - you don't want to turn back. You don't want it to stop, you want to commit to the next stage and the quicker the better, this just can't stop, NO NO NO!  He has no other thought than being her everything, this exciting lady's Hero.  She deserves a Hero, and you are it.

At this stage things that were evident, but hard to face, are becoming more transparent.  It is challenging your world, do you go on, because this is personal, and the personal trumps what the world thinks.   Who cares how bad it gets, love will still be love, think back, think back to the beginning.  Close your eyes, it's easy.
 
UNLESS.

The personal disappointment, becomes so great. 
Did she deceive, or was he deceiving himself, either way there is heartache for George.
His kindness has been compromised, and misplaced, but kindness is never a weakness.  
Not knowing what to do next is.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by PigPen on Fri Jul 25 2014, 15:55

I'm liking this woman less and less as I read today's postings.  Lizzy, I'm not sure about it being just about love.  Could he have seen something like this coming, and why he resigned from UN appointment?  I think this would be a good time for him to stop and pause before dashing up the aisle.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by PigPen on Fri Jul 25 2014, 15:57

LizzyNY wrote:He may not have found out where her money is coming from until they started working on the pre-nup and by then it was too late - or maybe he doesn't care - he's "in love" and she can do no wrong. (If that's the case, shame on him - he's a fool, which until now I never thought he was.)
I'm sure she thinks of all this as legal "business as usual", but I hope he can influence her to apply ethics to her career. The "everyone deserves a defense" argument doesn't fly so high when you're making a mint playing both sides of the fence.
All those who still think she is brilliant and selfless humanitarian please raise your hand.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Joanna on Fri Jul 25 2014, 16:06

Actually I don't think there's anyone in the world
who can be described as "selfless"

Think about it !

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by lelacorb on Fri Jul 25 2014, 16:38

I always thought that the "human rights" and Amal had little in common but believed to be one of the few people!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by premiere on Fri Jul 25 2014, 16:57

I get it that she's a lawyer and sometimes has to defend unsavory types. I also get it that when she takes on high-profile clients, regardless what they've done, she stands to make lots of money. But for crying out loud, can she please not be called a human-rights lawyer anymore! It's just so extremely inaccurate, and portrays her as someone that she is not.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by PigPen on Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:00

Please calm down, premiere. It's great to express your view but it's/she's not worth they gray hair or wrinkle!!  We're just chatting amongst friends.   Wink


Last edited by PigPen on Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:01; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:05

Let's try telling that to the UN, the British Government, Sonia Sotomayour, Kofi Annan, David Cameron, the head of the ICC, and her (and many other) Chambers specializing in that subject around the world, shall we?

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by premiere on Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:10

PigPen wrote:Please calm down, premiere. It's great to express your view but it's/she's not worth they gray hair or wrinkle!!  We're just chatting amongst friends.   Wink

I'm actually very calm. Also, I don't have gray hair due to a very good hairstylist. Very Happy It just amuses me how much George's ladies have been so whitewashed in the press.

Some of my friends and family are lawyers and would laugh if they were labeled as human-rights advocates based by the occasional pro-bonos they do.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by PigPen on Fri Jul 25 2014, 17:37

party animal - not! wrote:Let's try telling that to the UN, the British Government, Sonia Sotomayour, Kofi Annan, David Cameron, the head of the ICC, and her (and many other) Chambers specializing in that subject around the world, shall we?
I agree with you PAN.  I was addressing premiere, who sounded stressed.  But as she explained, she wasn't. My Bad!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Pita428 on Fri Jul 25 2014, 19:09

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this article or if it just goes away. If I were a British citizen I would be pissed that my tax dollars were paying for Gaddafi's legal fees.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Atalante on Fri Jul 25 2014, 19:53

Pita428 wrote:It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this article or if it just goes away. If I were a British citizen I would be pissed that my tax dollars were paying for Gaddafi's legal fees.
You nailed it !  Twisted Evil

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Fri Jul 25 2014, 19:54

The Guardian yesterday:


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

International criminal court backs Libyan trial of spy chief al-Senussi

Judges reject appeal against ruling that allows Libya to put Muammar Gaddafi's former intelligence chief on trial

Appeal judges at the international criminal court (ICC) have upheld a decision that allows Libyan authorities to put on trial a former intelligence chief from Colonel Gaddafi's era.
The appeal panel confirmed on Thursday that the case against Abdullah al-Senussi should not be handled by the ICC, which is based in The Hague, because prosecutors in Libya are pursuing similar charges against him.
The ICC indicted Senussi in 2011 on charges of murder and persecution allegedly committed during Gaddafi's unsuccessful attempt to put down a popular revolt.
Last year, ICC judges ruled that the case was inadmissible before their court because of the pre-existing Libyan case. Defence lawyers appealed against that decision, but the appeal judges have now upheld it.
Senussi is currently in detention in Libya. AP


Last edited by Nicky80 on Fri Jul 25 2014, 20:12; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added text)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Atalante on Fri Jul 25 2014, 20:17

LizzyNY wrote:
Atalante wrote: George's political connections come in handy for Amal no ?  

No, Atalante, George's political connections don't really come in handy for Amal. He's friends with the president - so what? Obama has plentyof problems of his own - he doesn't have time to think about Amal. And George's other political connections, I would think, are primarily in California politics - again, not helpful to Amal.

More likely Amal's political connections will wreak havoc on any political ambitions George may have. On a personal level she may be the sweetest person on earth, but politically she's poison - at least in US politics. If even his fans are disturbed by her politics, imagine what the opposition would do with her.
Link ... what fun ...

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Alisonfan on Fri Jul 25 2014, 20:19

Alleluia to that!  
Much talk on here about war crimes.  After the second world war Churchill and other world leaders put together a response to just this point. Maintaining the utter importance of war criminals being trialed in the country where the crimes were committed.  cheers

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by phys major on Fri Jul 25 2014, 23:06

Joanna wrote:Actually I don't think there's anyone in the world
who can be described as "selfless"

Think about it !
What a negative comment!  Im sure they are many selfless people nuns and priests come to mind..not to mention others..Ghandi,monks. And Mothers!!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Fri Jul 25 2014, 23:23

Pigpen - I think he might have resigned from the UN Messenger of Peace job because he was unhappy with the way they were handling things in South Sudan - even to the point of refusing to provide protection on one of his trips.

At one point I thought it might have to do with conflict of interest with Amal's cases, but now I'm not so sure. If he's so crazy in love, maybe he'll keep her knocked up so she won't have time to work.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Fri Jul 25 2014, 23:35

Doesn't The Guardian's article indicate that Senussi's trial is now a Libyan affair and isn't an ICC matter any more? Presumably that could imply that he won't get a fair trial in his own country, given the legal and political situation in Libya

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Fri Jul 25 2014, 23:40

And Senussi is all about the fairness.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Joanna on Sat Jul 26 2014, 00:04

lol! physmajor....apart from Ghandi, who left
this planet a good while ago, I don't think those examples are exactly "selfless" are they ?

Regarding priests, monks & nuns, child abuse &
child cruelty come to mind.
Regarding mothers, isn't the driving need to procreate
basically self serving ?

Sorry...off topic

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Sat Jul 26 2014, 00:21

No, my point was, Way2, that regardless of whether we think he is guilty or not guilty, or fair or unfair, if the justice system in every country and court in the world is not a fair one i e innocent until proved guilty, how many miscarriages of justice and kangaroo courts will there be around the world?

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Sat Jul 26 2014, 02:02

I think I've stated clearly before: I don't subscribe to "innocent until proven guilty" in the case of heads of state and their agents accused of things like genocide. I think it's a travesty that they get to subvert the law and then hide behind its protections.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 26 2014, 03:05

Way2Old - I agree with the emotion and the outrage of your statement, but I guess PAN has a point. The justice system, no matter where, should be the same for everyone if we want to be able to trust it. The people you're angry about should be able to be proved guilty since the whole world knows what they've done. If they were found innocent the courts would prove themselves to be worthless.

I'm tired. Am I making any sense?

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Pita428 on Sat Jul 26 2014, 03:07

Libya has proved to the ICC that they can give him a fair trial. If they are convinced, that is good enough for me. I think the people of Libya need to be able to put this matter to rest and move on. The lawyers have made more than enough money from their suffering.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by theminis on Sat Jul 26 2014, 03:33

Joanna wrote:lol! physmajor....apart from Ghandi, who left
this planet a good while ago, I don't think those examples are exactly "selfless" are they ?

Regarding priests, monks & nuns, child abuse &
child cruelty come to mind.
Regarding mothers, isn't the driving need to procreate
basically self serving ?

Sorry...off topic

What a very sad statement

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Alisonfan on Sat Jul 26 2014, 11:36

Pita428 wrote:Libya has proved to the ICC that they can give him a fair trial. If they are convinced, that is good enough for me. I think the people of Libya need to be able to put this matter to rest and move on. The lawyers have made more than enough money from their suffering.



Well said Pita428.  This gravy train has to stop!

Not only in Libya. Everywhere in the world where people who suffer enormous distress & brutality.  No one should should make a gravy train out of such suffering.

Let us all hope that this has put a spotlight on "Human Rights" Lawyers.  
This has turned in to The Emperor's New Clothes.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by party animal - not! on Sat Jul 26 2014, 11:55

Way2, don't you believe that there should be a 'level playing field' around the world when it's come to justice? And if we treat the traitors, mass killers, and those accused of genocide at the top of the pile in a different way, then which of us further down the chain can trust anyone to give us a fair trial should we be in the dock as the accused? 

That's why judicial systems around the world should be completely separate from governments, isn't it?

(And it goes without saying that evidence is the key............)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Joanna on Sat Jul 26 2014, 12:06

theminis wrote:
Joanna wrote:lol! physmajor....apart from Ghandi, who left
this planet a good while ago, I don't think those examples are exactly "selfless" are they ?

Regarding priests, monks & nuns, child abuse &
child cruelty come to mind.
Regarding mothers, isn't the driving need to procreate
basically self serving ?

Sorry...off topic

What a very sad statement


Yes indeed....the truth is sad.

Here in UK we've had so much information coming out of the woodwork
about child abuse and child cruelty over the years. A lot of it involving so called  
"selfless religious" males and females

It is very sad for the victims especially when they hadn't been
listened to before.

I'm so pleased that now the pendulum has swung in
the opposite direction.

Sorry....off topic again. Finished now by me.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by phys major on Sat Jul 26 2014, 13:26

Omg joanna seriously??? Every priest nun and monk are. Undercover child molesters, yes even the Pope..you solved it now maybe you can solve world PEACE!!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Sat Jul 26 2014, 14:22

party animal - not! wrote:Way2, don't you believe that there should be a 'level playing field' around the world when it's come to justice? And if we treat the traitors, mass killers, and those accused of genocide at the top of the pile in a different way, then which of us further down the chain can trust anyone to give us a fair trial should we be in the dock as the accused? 

That's why judicial systems around the world should be completely separate from governments, isn't it?

(And it goes without saying that evidence is the key............)



Quite simply, no I do not.

The playing field is not level when it comes to the capacity to commit crimes, and the damage they do to the world. I don't buy that the justice system to address the crimes has to be level. A man accused of murdering his wife, for instance, is an individual citizen who deserves to defend himself by the laws under which he lives, and to punished under those laws if he is found guilty. That man has no capacity to influence, change, or usurp those laws, and he did not (if he is guilty) do anything to the system of laws under which he lives as a citizen, except violate them. I have no quarrel with the due process that holds that this man is innocent until proven guilty.

But a leader of a country, or someone who acts as his agent, who is in power and holds authority over citizens and influence over the officials who administer the laws is quite different. Where the individual private citizen has to be found to have opportunity, intent, means, and motive, these elements are foregone conclusions for a criminal leader who commits or orders something like genocide, or who uses his country's money for himself. And he carries influence within the system, both with authorities, through personal gain and/or preservation, and with the population, through fear. 

The same system of due process shouldn't have to be the same for these two hypothetical but real-world instances. Someone who has control within the system, and authority over the means of commission of the crime, in my mind, should be held to a different standard than "innocent until proven guilty."

I realize not many people agree with me. It's an unpopular stance that flies in the face of traditional principles of fairness and justice. Don't care. I think a lot of the world's problems are perpetuated by clinging to ideas that feel right but don't work when they're confronted with unconscionable evil.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 26 2014, 14:45

party animal - not! wrote:Way2, don't you believe that there should be a 'level playing field' around the world when it's come to justice? And if we treat the traitors, mass killers, and those accused of genocide at the top of the pile in a different way, then which of us further down the chain can trust anyone to give us a fair trial should we be in the dock as the accused? 

That's why judicial systems around the world should be completely separate from governments, isn't it?

(And it goes without saying that evidence is the key............)

PAN - Thanks for stating much more clearly what I was trying to say. The  key to the whole thing, IMO, is that guilt must be proved in as unbiased and transparent a process as possible. All evidence and facts out in the open for all to see .

Maybe trials like these should be held in the home country of the accused, but supervised/directed hands-on by an international body like the ICC to ensure the outcome isn't politically manipulated.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by PigPen on Sat Jul 26 2014, 15:05

theminis wrote:
Joanna wrote:lol! physmajor....apart from Ghandi, who left
this planet a good while ago, I don't think those examples are exactly "selfless" are they ?

Regarding priests, monks & nuns, child abuse &
child cruelty come to mind.
Regarding mothers, isn't the driving need to procreate
basically self serving ?

Sorry...off topic

What a very sad statement
And offensive, IMO!!!!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by Nicky80 on Sat Jul 26 2014, 15:50

I must say I'm with Way2old4dis on that subject

Justice sounds great for individual citizens but for corrupt politicians leaders or dictators I feel different....If they kill millions of they own people and get caught I don't agree they need a fair trial. It is obvious they are guilty....I'm not a fan of catching a bad politician leader/dictator giving him a fair trial which means a big media circus and giving him a stage to speak his nonsense. 

I know this sounds now harsh but when the war in Libya happened and they caught Gaddafi they killed him straight away. No trial and wasting money for a trial for a dictator like him. They should have done that for Saddam Hussein too. He got the death penalty anyway so why wasting money just so a dictator who murdered millions can say "I got a fair trial".....Did the fair trial against Hussein change something in Iraq....no...Terror is still there....We just wasted money on him.

I know what people try to say as it is about how the justice system should work for everyone in order to believe in it. I understand that. 

But I think the money you use to defend a dictator or a bad corrupt politician leader you can use that to help the victims instead who suffered from that bad guy..... 

I think most dictators or political corrupt leaders do the worst and awful thing in their country and know when they get caught they hope to stay in Den Haag and ask for a fair trial and enjoy the TV in their nice luxury cell ......And while they are there they have enough time to transfer they billions of money through different countries and people....In case they do not make it out at least the family and all others have still money to live a luxury life....

And I think that is for me what happens when Human right Lawyer or others asked for a fair trial and go through Den Haag to explain they case...It is just about winning time to sort out their stolen goods.....Of course we always hear the money got frozen but people like this are not stupid they have enough bank accounts in different countries....

Ok I'm done...bite my head off  Shocked

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by PigPen on Sat Jul 26 2014, 16:04

Not at all.  Your view is expressed eloquently.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her client Gaddafi spy-chief Abdulla Senussi and her LIBYAN CLIENTS

Post by LizzyNY on Sat Jul 26 2014, 16:54

Nicky - Maybe there needs to be a better way to freeze the assets of these people so they can't get at them or pass them along to others - only use them to cover the costs of the court (not the lawyers - let the accused's family pay them).

I know many people think these guys should just be taken out and shot, and I understand this feeling, but I think a public trial is useful. It allows the whole world to see exactly what these people have done and why they should be punished - sort of a reminder to others that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. I think that was the basis for the Nurenberg trials after WWII. A reminder that no country or leader acts in isolation - we are all part of the world community and there are consequences to our actions.

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