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Amal Alamuddin and her work

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Joanna on Mon Apr 28 2014, 08:51

playfuldeb wrote:wikipedeia has her posted again, as of today, the 27th
"This page was last modified on 27 April 2014 at 21:55"

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On Wikipedia !

[th]Amal Alamuddin[/th][th]Nationality[/th][th]Occupation[/th][th]Partner(s)[/th]
British-Lebanese
Barrister
George Clooney (2013-present)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Joanna on Mon Apr 28 2014, 11:53

In 2011, she was pictured next to Assange at the extradition hearing at the High Court in London.


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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Mon Apr 28 2014, 21:00

PAN I moved our posts to a separate thread as it is more about her and George - hope ok  Very Happy 

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Mon Apr 28 2014, 21:01

Great idea Nicky. Thanks for everything - again!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Tue Apr 29 2014, 02:27


This is very sad, given the work that went into the recommendations to improve the justice system in Egypt by Amal and her colleagues.......


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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Sevens on Tue Apr 29 2014, 17:19

I think I just found this:
Ahead of International Women's Day, Author J.K. Rowling, International Fashion Designer Victoria Beckham, Mumsnet CEO Justine Roberts, Human Rights Barrister Amal Alamuddin and UNICEF UK Ambassador Jemima Khan are among signatories of open letter calling for action from UK Government to protect women and children.
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BBC News Amal video

Post by silly willy on Tue Apr 29 2014, 19:18

Don't think I've seen this posted here but if so, sorry for the duplicate.  Wink 

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Tue Apr 29 2014, 19:33

Thanks SW, I think we have it already but it is okay. Better twice then none hehe. Merged it with this thread as it is about her work. Thanks again

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Amal Alamuddin talks about Yulia Tymoshenko

Post by silly willy on Sat May 03 2014, 10:10



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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Alisonfan on Sat May 03 2014, 11:19

George probably feels he should have stayed well out of this now. Lesson for the future, stay out of her work, she is being richly paid, you are not.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Sat May 03 2014, 13:25

Hi SW, I merged your new thread with this thread. As you can see above you have posted that video before on the 29th April and I merged it here too. Thanks.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Sun May 04 2014, 02:42


Long, but interesting article a couple of hours old in The Guardian:


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Her current caseload - and I think the last paragraph is very important before we rush to judgement.............

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Katiedot on Sun May 04 2014, 03:45

Hey PAN, do you think you could post the article and not just the linke? It would help me out an awful lot. Thanks

Amal Alamuddin faces a very different engagement

George Clooney's fiancee is fighting to be able to defend Muammar Gaddafi's enforcer at a trial in which both Libya and the international criminal court are coming under attack


Amal Alamuddin: 'The ICC made its decision despite the fact that Libya did not allow us a single visit to Senussi.' Photograph: Justin Tallis/AFP/Getty Images


Amal Alamuddin was pictured across the world last month after the announcement of her engagement to George Clooney after a whirlwind romance. Soon she could return to the front pages in a more controversial role – when she stands up in court to represent Muammar Gaddafi's notorious spy chief in a case that could scupper the reputation of the international criminal court.

Abdullah al Senussi is no one's idea of a poster boy for justice. As Gaddafi's intelligence chief and right-hand man for four decades, the 64-year-old supervised torture, assassinations and town-square hangings.

Many Libyans blame him for the massacre of 1,200 inmates at Tripoli's Abu Salem prison, a Paris court has convicted him in absentia for the bombing of a French airliner in 1989, and Scottish police are to interview him over allegations of masterminding the Lockerbie bombing. He fled Libya during the 2011 Arab spring revolution, but was caught in Mauritania and returned to Libya. And that is where the trouble began.

Senussi was charged – along with Gaddafi's playboy son, Saif al-Islam – with war crimes and crimes against humanity by the ICC. Under the rules of the United Nations, which ordered the case, the Hague court was to hold the trial unless Libya could prove itself capable of doing the job itself. In October, Libya was given that approval, despite allegations that Senussi had been mistreated, and Libya's refusal to let Alamuddin or any of his ICC-appointed defence team visit him, which she says should have been a red flag to the Hague.

"A scary precedent has been set," she told the Observer. "The ICC made its decision despite the fact that Libya did not allow us a single visit to Senussi."

Considered a high-flier in the close-knit world of international lawyers, Alamuddin was hired for the case by Ben Emmerson QC, with whom she had already worked defending the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange. Born in Beirut to a journalist mother and travel agent father, the 36-year-old barrister had already gained a high profile as an adviser to former UN secretary general Kofi Annan and was picked by William Hague for a panel investigating rape as a war crime.

Her decision to work as legal adviser to Bahrain's king, Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa, who has been blamed by rights groups for systematic torture and repression, raised eyebrows, but sources at her chambers in Doughty Street, London, say she is a tough, combative lawyer with experience gained as a prosecutor on the UN's Lebanon war crimes tribunal.

When she failed to get a visa for Libya, or even permission to speak to her client by phone, she sought out Senussi's daughter, Anoud, who was kidnapped and jailed in Tripoli after visiting her father in prison, and later fled to London .

The Senussi appeal hearing against the Hague's decision to back Libya cuts to the very heart of what the ICC is supposed to be. Conceived as a "world court", its mission is to set a benchmark for global justice. In backing Libya, that reputation stands to be badly tarnished.

Libya began the trial of Senussi and Saif al-Islam last month amid chaotic conditions. Senussi, haggard and emaciated in blue prison garb, appeared with other defendants in a steel cage and complained that Libya had broken a promise to the Hague to find him a lawyer.

Prosecutors refused to let him see the evidence against him (he could face the death penalty). The militia of Zintan refused to hand over Saif al-Islam, and the militia of Misrata refused to hand over another eight defendants, while six more were simply missing. Militiamen guarding the Al Hadba prison, where the trial is being held, refused to human rights officials access. Emmerson condemned it as "a show trial without a trace of due process guarantees".

Amaluddin has waited six months for ICC judges to give a date for the appeal. When they do, the issue of defence lawyers will be central. "The Hague court penalises us for not being in a position to give details of all the violations against our client, but there are details we cannot provide because we can't get to see him," she told the Observer.

After 12 years in existence and costing a billion dollars, the ICC has, because of bureaucracy and delays, secured just a single conviction, that of Congolese warlord Germain Katanga. The Senussi appeal hearing promised to be a landmark day, with the Libya process condemned by Amnesty International, the UN's panel on torture and the African Union's court.

"The whole point of the ICC is to be there when national systems can't do the job, said Alamuddin "Instead, it is giving a flawed, dangerous process the stamp of approval."

With the Senussi case active, Alamuddin will not be drawn on why she is defending a man many think deserves all he gets. One clue comes from fellow Doughty Street lawyer John Jones QC, who is defending Saif al-Islam: "Justice needs defence lawyers. The system only works if there's robust advocacy on both sides."

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Sun May 04 2014, 11:30

This was found by PAN, thanks for the find  Give Flowers 

Clooney’s lawyer fiancée wants to help GMA


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MANILA, Philippines - Amal Alamuddin, an international human rights lawyer and fiancée of Hollywood star George Clooney, has expressed intention of bringing the case of former President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo before the United Nations.
Alamuddin said the continued detention of Arroyo has apparently violated her human rights.


According The STAR columnist Carmen Pedrosa, the Lebanese-born British barrister recently visited Manila following a speaking engagement in Singapore and was apprised of the case of the former leader.


Arroyo, reelected as representative of Pampanga’s second congressional district, is under hospital arrest at the Veterans Memorial Medical Center in Quezon City facing non-bailable charges of plunder.


Alamuddin’s mother, Al-Hayat foreign editor Baria Alamuddin, is Pedrosa’s long-time friend whom she met in London where the columnist lived when she was in exile.


“By the time she (Alamuddin) was on her way to London she committed to help former President Arroyo by advising her on her rights under international law,” Pedrosa said.
“This was not about power politics but about human rights and every individual was entitled to it, she said,” she said.
“Even political enemies have rights,” Pedrosa quoted Alamuddin as saying.
Lawyers of Arroyo, 67, have filed several petitions for bail before the Sandiganbayan, where her case is lodged, citing the weak evidence against her and her frail health.


Pedrosa said Alamuddin told her of her work as a lawyer, including her handling of the case of Cambodia against Thailand fighting over the Temple of Preah Vihear straddling the border of the two countries.
Alamuddin also represented Cambodia in inter-state territorial claim before the International Court of Justice, The Hague; and Prosecutor v Senussi and Gaddafi, where she represented Abdallah Al Senussi, former Libyan intelligence chief, in the case of alleged crimes against humanity before the ICJ; and Tymoshenko vs. Ukraine, representing Yulia Tymoshenko, former Ukrainian prime minister.


Alamuddin also represented Wikileaks founder Julian Assange in a human rights claim before the European Court of Human Rights in Sweden, along with other high-profile international cases.


“That is the beauty of the engagement between Amal Alamuddin, the human rights international lawyer, and George Clooney. Whatever human rights case Amal will now handle would have the built-in publicity of being engaged to the Hollywood actor,” Pedrosa said.


She said Clooney is not just a popular actor but has also taken up advocacies for peace in Sudan and Syria, which was what brought the couple together in the first place.
Clooney was UN special messenger of peace for six years and has become active for other advocacies, Pedrosa said.
“Amal will bring in the interest and the push needed in the world for human rights violations with George Clooney of Hollywood by her side,” Pedrosa said.


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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Joanna on Sun May 04 2014, 11:49

George's future wife is going to be an interesting lady 
to watch, work wise, in the future IMO.

 Coolio 

I do admire strong professional women.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Sun May 04 2014, 11:52

Yes Jo me too  Thumbs up!  I agree

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Sun May 04 2014, 11:56



Thiis is definitely a meeting of minds, I think - never mind how amazing they both look!

Power couple. Wow

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by playfuldeb on Sun May 04 2014, 15:17

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Amal Alamuddin
Tel:020 7404 1313 [Amal's email address deleted by katiedot]
Position

Amal specialises in international law, human rights, criminal law and extradition. In the UK she has defended clients in the Magistrates Court and Crown Court and has represented clients in both Part 1 and Part 2 extradition cases. In 2011 Amal was part of the team of barristers representing Julian Assange in resisting an extradition request by Sweden. She is currently also engaged in advisory and fact-finding work related to human rights in the Middle East region. This includes advising the Royal Court of Bahrain on institutional and legal reforms to ensure compliance with international human rights; work as the
Rapporteur of the International Bar Asssociation Human Rights Institute in Cairo; and advice to an NGO regarding the obligations of Libya to cooperate with the International Criminal Court proceedings in respect of Saif Al Islam Gaddafi. She is also part of the legal team representing the government of Cambodia in a case involving a territorial dispute with Thailand at the International Court of Justice in The Hague. She has previously worked as a legal adviser to judges at the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, and as senior legal adviser to the prosecutor of the Special Tribunal for Lebanon.

Career

Called 2010, Inner Temple.

Languages

French, Arabic.

Member

International Bar Association; International Law Association; British Institute of International and Comparative Law; International Human Rights Lawyers Association; Bar Human Rights Committee; Chatham House.

Education

Oxford University (St Hugh’s College) (BA, Jurisprudence); New York University School of Law (LLM).


Last edited by Katiedot on Sun May 04 2014, 15:37; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : deleted Amal's email address)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Mazy on Mon May 05 2014, 01:28

The start was George resigning as the UN Messenger of Peace. The could do a lot of good, as long as he is an equal partner.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Mon May 05 2014, 01:51

Yes, that's what I thought, Mazy.

But do you know what that frees them up to do? And why would resigning that post make it easier for them? Is it simply to have voices of their own for or against certain UN decisions?


Fascinating stuff. They're moving fast..........

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Pita428 on Mon May 05 2014, 05:01

I feel like there is definitely an agenda here, I mean besides the obvious love in their eyes.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by bellybaby on Mon May 05 2014, 14:56

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Clooney's girl and Gaddafi's monster:
George's fiancée Amal Alamuddin set to represent Libyan spy chief who supervised torture and hangings is wanted over Lockerbie bombing


Having won the heart of the world’s most eligible bachelor, Amal Alamuddin is getting used to being the centre of attention.

But George Clooney’s fiancée has also hit the spotlight for a very different reason – defending a suspected Libyan war criminal accused of masterminding the Lockerbie bombing.

It has been just a week since her engagement to the Hollywood heart-throb was revealed but it is already clear that the high-flying barrister is not about to let her career take a back seat.

The international human rights lawyer is representing Abdullah al-Senussi, Colonel Gaddafi’s former right-hand man, who is accused of numerous atrocities against his people.

She is helping the 64-year-old appeal against the decision to allow his trial to take place in Libya, where he could face the death penalty.

Beirut-born, Oxford University-educated Miss Alamuddin, 36, previously represented WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange during his fight against extradition to Sweden on sex assault charges.

She was also a legal adviser to Bahrain’s king, Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa, who has been accused by human rights groups of systematic torture and repression.

al-Senussi was convicted in absentia by a French court for the 1989 bombing of a French airliner. In Libya he is accused of overseeing a prison massacre of 1,200 inmates as well as torture and hangings. He was charged along with Gaddafi’s playboy son, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, with war crimes and crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Court.

Under United Nations rules, the Hague court was due to hear the case unless Libya could prove that it was capable of overseeing it.
But Miss Alamuddin said Libya refused to allow her or any of his ICC-appointed defence team to visit him, which, she says, should have been a red flag to the ICC.

The trial began last month in controversial conditions as al-Senussi appeared in a steel cage looking emaciated and prosecutors refused to let him see the evidence against him.

Miss Alamuddin said: ‘The whole point of the ICC is to be there when national systems cannot do the job. Instead, it is giving a flawed, dangerous process the stamp of approval.’ When asked why she is defending a suspected war criminal, she declined to comment.

However, her colleague at London’s Doughty Street Chambers, John Jones QC, said: ‘Justice needs defence lawyers. The system only works if there’s robust advocacy on both sides.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 Sad 

When I hear the term, "Human Rights Lawyer" or "Humanitarian", I think of someone who is helping victims; someone who is fighting for the rights of those who have none.

Amal is defending all these criminals. This isn't helping the victims. This is helping the murderers, rapists, and torturers try to avoid persecution for their crimes.

I understand her colleague's point about "justice needing defense lawyers". I guess someone has to. IMO, they forfeited any rights to justice they had when they carried out, or condoned the atrocities. Their victims weren't treated fairly, why do they get to be?

Her title makes her seem like a "good" person (this is not a character reflection, rather a stereotypical one based on her professional title), someone who sticks up for the little guy, the underdog, the voiceless.

But I guess she really isn't, is she? She's siding with the bad guys.

And if, say, Omar Bashir is captured, and put on trial for his crimes, do you think she'd represent him as well?


Last edited by Nicky80 on Mon May 05 2014, 14:57; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add paragraph to underline what is article and what personal note)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by fava on Mon May 05 2014, 15:05

bellybaby wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Clooney's girl and Gaddafi's monster:
George's fiancée Amal Alamuddin set to represent Libyan spy chief who supervised torture and hangings is wanted over Lockerbie bombing

She is helping the 64-year-old appeal against the decision to allow his trial to take place in Libya, where he could face the death penalty.
.....

al-Senussi was convicted in absentia by a French court for the 1989 bombing of a French airliner. In Libya he is accused of overseeing a prison massacre of 1,200 inmates as well as torture and hangings. He was charged along with Gaddafi’s playboy son, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, with war crimes and crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Court.

Under United Nations rules, the Hague court was due to hear the case unless Libya could prove that it was capable of overseeing it.
But Miss Alamuddin said Libya refused to allow her or any of his ICC-appointed defence team to visit him, which, she says, should have been a red flag to the ICC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 Sad 

When I hear the term, "Human Rights Lawyer" or "Humanitarian", I think of someone who is helping victims; someone who is fighting for the rights of those who have none.

Amal is defending all these criminals. This isn't helping the victims. This is helping the murderers, rapists, and torturers try to avoid persecution for their crimes.

I understand her colleague's point about "justice needing defense lawyers". I guess someone has to. IMO, they forfeited any rights to justice they had when they carried out, or condoned the atrocities. Their victims weren't treated fairly, why do they get to be?

Her title makes her seem like a "good" person (this is not a character reflection, rather a stereotypical one based on her professional title), someone who sticks up for the little guy, the underdog, the voiceless.

But I guess she really isn't, is she? She's siding with the bad guys.

And if, say, Omar Bashir is captured, and put on trial for his crimes, do you think she'd represent him as well?

I disagree-- It sounds like she is only working a limited aspect of his case: whether he should be tried in Libya rather than the Hague. I think if the ICC doesn't fight this sort of trial and for the right to be the arbiter of these cases they lose all credibility and call their purpose into question.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Joanna on Mon May 05 2014, 15:07

Why..."Justice needing defence lawyers" ?

Because anarchy would rein I suppose, which would be 100% worse.

That's always been an interesting point for discussion,
in principal, for donkey's years....maybe in the Kitchen ?

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by LizzyNY on Mon May 05 2014, 15:40

In this country we have the saying that "Justice is blind", meaning that every verdict should be decided only on the facts of the case, no matter who the defendent is. Thus, it is the prosecution's job to prove guilt and the defense's job to find reasons why the prosecution's case doesn't hold up. Emotion and bias should have no place in a courtroom. Obviously this is not always true, which is why we have "The Innocence Project", and why many lawyers defend upopular clients.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by LizzyNY on Mon May 05 2014, 15:45

(Oops!) That being said, it disturbs me that Ms. Alamuddin seems always to be on the "wrong" side of the aisle. It may be that these are the cases she is assigned to. Or it may be that she knows these cases will be very high profile and boost her reputation. I don't know. Either way, I'd like to see her use her skills to defend the true victims in these cases. Then I really could buy her "humanitarian" image. Right now I have my doubts.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Mon May 05 2014, 16:29


Exactly, Jo. You put it in a nutshell. Everybody is innocent until proved guilty. That's justice. Otherwise anarchy - which is what we're seeing a level of around the world now.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Mon May 05 2014, 17:23

Exactly PAN and we (Europe/USA) can not preach democracy and justice and fair trial to other countries if we at the end start doing the same thing like others do to call somebody guilty with no proper trial or not giving the option of a fair trial.

I think Lizzy said it really well:

"In this country we have the saying that "Justice is blind", meaning that every verdict should be decided only on the facts of the case, no matter who the defendent is."

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by LizzyNY on Mon May 05 2014, 17:35

Nicky - That is the basis for our legal system. It doesn't always work that way, which is why we need lawyers willing to defend the worst of the worst.

However, I'd still like to see Amal's name linked to the other side of the equation once in a while. The victims of these people need a defender too.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by fava on Mon May 05 2014, 18:03

LizzyNY wrote:Nicky - That is the basis for our legal system. It doesn't always work that way, which is why we need lawyers willing to defend the worst of the worst.

However, I'd still like to see Amal's name linked to the other side of the equation once in a while. The victims of these people need a defender too.

Well it's there in her resume--people are just not focusing on the positive. For ex,, the open letter about violence against women earlier in this thread. Also: several cases on behalf of the prosecution before the ICC, UN work on behalf of Syria, work on the policitally motivated imprisonment of Yulia (whatever anyone thinks about Yuilia otherwise), part of inquiry on human rights and the uses of drones and member of panel to prevent sexual violence in conflict zones.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by LizzyNY on Tue May 06 2014, 00:02

Thanks for the info, Fava.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Alisonfan on Tue May 06 2014, 01:44

I doubt that Amal would lend her barrister skills to the plight of the
uncharged, untried Gitmo detainees, but Gaddafi's inaccessible spy chief -- let the bucks
roll in while on retainer. She chooses her cases well.
All about the money Mr Clooney, did she tell you how "crazy" her job is, and you believed it.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Carla97 on Tue May 06 2014, 08:26

fava wrote:
bellybaby wrote:
 Sad 

When I hear the term, "Human Rights Lawyer" or "Humanitarian", I think of someone who is helping victims; someone who is fighting for the rights of those who have none.

Amal is defending all these criminals. This isn't helping the victims. This is helping the murderers, rapists, and torturers try to avoid persecution for their crimes.

I understand her colleague's point about "justice needing defense lawyers". I guess someone has to. IMO, they forfeited any rights to justice they had when they carried out, or condoned the atrocities. Their victims weren't treated fairly, why do they get to be?

Her title makes her seem like a "good" person (this is not a character reflection, rather a stereotypical one based on her professional title), someone who sticks up for the little guy, the underdog, the voiceless.

But I guess she really isn't, is she? She's siding with the bad guys.

And if, say, Omar Bashir is captured, and put on trial for his crimes, do you think she'd represent him as well?

I disagree-- It sounds like she is only working a limited aspect of his case:  whether he should be tried in Libya rather than the Hague.  I think if the ICC doesn't fight this sort of trial and for the right to be the arbiter of these cases they lose all credibility and call their purpose into question.

Well there is the ethical dilemma: whether he should be tried in Libya rather than the Hague. Friend send me this quote " you are charged with evading world justice - how do you plead? - Bigger." It kind of says it.

Some of us who remember Slobodan Milosevic deeply problematic (refused to have a council and defendid himself at Hague. Died in prison there in the heart attack) case, see a familiar pattern of liberal cosmopolitanism that seeks to displace the state basically. That farce was extension of something else than "humanity" and was discomfort to many victims. So no milestone or victory of international justice, but rather error.

So one big question is would this trial at the Hague provide support for trying Al Qaida members in an ICC (instead of in the US)? Would that be okay for americans?

Having this trial in the Hague could gravely harm the very thing it seeks to protect and that is the protection of human rights. There was mentioning this would turn out to be "a show trial" in Libya. What other would it be in the Hague?



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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by bellybaby on Tue May 06 2014, 13:57

IMO, Gaddafi and all his puppets should be tried in Libya. Why should the trial be moved so that they get a more fair shot?

It's their government. If it's unjust, it's at their doing. If you're going to be willing to live by the sword, then be willing to die by it. Just like all the other people that did.

And unfortunately, IMO, justice is never blind. Whoever has the best lawyer (usually the most expensive one with the better resources) is the one that wins.

Here in the States recently, a boy from a very wealthy family got drunk, caused a crash, and killed 4 people and injured 2 others. His punishment? Rehab and probation for 10 years. No jail time. The reason? His expensive defense attorney sited "Affluenza" - a new term that means, this boy is so rich, and the parents never set limits with him, and gave him everything he wanted, so therefore he didn't know any better. In other words, a spoiled brat. So he got off. Can you imagine someone killing your child and getting off because they're too spoiled??

IMO, Amal is like this kid's attorney. She fights to get trial venues moved, and keep people from being extradited so that they're not really held accountable for their actions. I'm not a fan of that, and therefore becoming less of a fan of hers.

On a different note - I'm pretty sure we have a "First" with the video of Amal above - is this the first time a George GF was on TV being interviewed and George's name wasn't in the introduction??? I know it wouldn't have been appropriate, but that never stopped them before.





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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Tue May 06 2014, 20:30


Just want to clarify something - Amal is not Senussi's defence lawyer or counsel. She is trying to get his case heard at the International Criminal Court rather than one in Libya - and she has been denied access to talk to him about it.......

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by bellybaby on Tue May 06 2014, 20:50

If that clarification was for me, party animal, I noted that in my rant, lol.

She fights to get trial venues moved, and keep people from being extradited so that they're not really held accountable for their actions. I'm not a fan of that, and therefore becoming less of a fan of hers.




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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Wed May 07 2014, 00:58

I am not a big supporter of so-called international courts. I think they are more political show than anything. But they make it look like somebody's doing something, and draw attention so that the World at least knows about the atrocities.

And I have never subscribed to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" when the perpetrator is in charge of the weapons and the men who carry them. There's a mass grave of bullet-riddled or poisoned bodies, and you're the only one with the guns or gas? No. No presumption of innocence. Prove you didn't do it, asshole. And don't use the money you stole from your citizens to do it.

The argument is always that an aggressive defense enforces the integrity of the justice system. I think that's a self-serving justification for perpetuating the status quo.

I will call Ms. Alamuddin an international law attorney. She is probably a humanitarian on some level. But she is only selectively a "human rights" activist, and, to me, you either are or you aren't. She can't eat her cake and have it, too.


Last edited by Way2Old4Dis on Wed May 07 2014, 12:51; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Alisonfan on Wed May 07 2014, 01:26

Her Chambers are well known for high profile cases, they know that a good retainer is worth more than a bleeding heart, who knows what they make of George.

Did I tell you how crazy her job is? She just can't refuse, justice has to be seen to be done. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. The dirtier the job the bigger the fee.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by LizzyNY on Wed May 07 2014, 03:22

I just hope that her career doesn't screw up his. There are many people in this country who disapprove of his politics and global involvement. If they don't like the causes she promotes, and if he gets involved in them, it won't help his image any. I'd hate to see him lose relevance and the access he now has to people with power because of her.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by bellybaby on Wed May 07 2014, 13:07

Way2Old4Dis wrote:I am not a big supporter of so-called international courts. I think they are more political show than anything. But they make it look like somebody's doing something, and draw attention so that the World at least knows about the atrocities.

And I have never subscribed to the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" when the perpetrator is in charge of the weapons and the men who carry them. There's a mass grave of bullet-riddled or poisoned bodies, and you're the only one with the guns or gas? No. No presumption of innocence. Prove you didn't do it, asshole. And don't use the money you stole from your citizens to do it.

The argument is always that an aggressive defense enforces the integrity of the justice system. I think that's a self-serving justification for perpetuating the status quo.

I will call Ms. Alamuddin an international law attorney. She is probably a humanitarian on some level. But she is only selectively a "human rights" activist, and, to me, you either are or you aren't. She can't eat her cake and have it, too.

Amen.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Thu May 08 2014, 18:01

This was being tweeted to a guy based in London who is a stringer for People.com by a legal website, when he tweeted them for help


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

what’s the difference between a barrister and a solicitor?

Barristers and solicitors are all lawyers, but they are different types of lawyers. One is not ‘better’, more experienced or more senior than the other. They have quite different training and expertise and do different types of legal work. The system that operates in England & Wales is a ‘split’ system, where there is a division of labour between these two types of lawyers. In some countries (such as America) there is a a ‘fused’ system where all lawyers can (potentially) do all things, although of course they will tend to specialise.


Barristers are self employed. solicitors are not. they are employed or partners. Barristers aren’t allowed to form partnerships or companies, they trade as sole traders, but group together for economy and marketing under one roof which is called a ‘chambers’.


Because barristers within one chambers are all independent from one another they can act on different sides in the same dispute, but solicitors in the same firm can’t because they aren’t independent and would have a conflict of interests.


Barristers are specialist advocates or specialists in a particular area of law (or both). solicitors do also specialise, and some do their own advocacy, but most solicitors are primarily litigators. this means meeting the client, working out what the case is, sorting out the paperwork, communicating with the other sides’ solicitors and where necessary instructing a barrister to advise about the law or to go to court and represent the client on their behalf.


Barristers spend a lot of their time in court, talking to other barristers, dealing with witnesses giving evidence and addressing the Judge. Solicitors often come to court to support a barrister by taking a note or having the files to hand incase the barrister needs something. Increasingly often a barrister attends court without a solicitor. This is often more cost effective.


A barrister is often paid by the piece of work, i.e. £x to attend for this hearing and £y to draft this document. A solicitor usually bills by the hour. Barristers are usually sent to court because its cheaper than sending a solicitor who bills by the hour or because the barrister is more experienced at dealing with the court side of the process (or both).


A client can instruct a solicitor directly but to instruct a barrister you have to first instruct a solicitor as intermediary and they will instruct a barrister for you. Recently a new scheme has been introduced where a client can instruct a barrister direct through a scheme called ‘public access’ but this is only in certain types of cases and only where the client can effectively act as their own solicitor.


A barrister will often but not always deal with a case all the way through. However because a barrister is usually briefed each time a specific piece of work needs to be done (a hearing, a piece of drafting) there might be different barristers dealing with a case, although the solicitor will remain responsible the whole way through. This is because a solicitor is retained by a client and is responsible for dealing with what comes up as it comes up, but a barrister cannot always be available for a client to attend a particular hearing because these dates are not known at the outset. If a barrister has been previously booked to do something else for another client on the date in question she will have to honour that committment. This called the ‘cab rank rule’ and it is what helps keep barristers independent by preventing them from picking and choosing the cases they want to do unfairly.


Contrary to popular belief both barrsiters and solicitors can become judges, although more judges have come from the bar than from the ranks of solicitors, and still do.


As with everything – the points above are not true all of the time, but they are generally applicable


Last edited by Nicky80 on Thu May 08 2014, 19:30; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added text)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Carla97 on Thu May 08 2014, 18:14

party animal - not! wrote:
Just want to clarify something - Amal is not Senussi's defence lawyer or counsel. She is trying to get his case heard at the International Criminal Court rather than one in Libya - and she has been denied access to talk to him about it.......

Yes and my reply was about why it shouldn´t be heard in the ICC insteads of Libya, where he lived and committed those crimes fully appreciating the state laws at that time.

If she is not his defence lawyer or counsel why should she talk to him directly?



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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Thu May 08 2014, 19:31

Thanks PAN for the link. This was a great read. I never understood the difference between a barrister and a solicitor. Now it is more clear  Thumbs up!

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by LornaDoone on Thu May 08 2014, 20:37

Well then given that "his nibs" as he's often called here is worth over $100 million dollars and now that I understand the difference between a barrister and solicitor - seems to me that Amal can always take a breather and not work if she so desires.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by ace on Thu May 08 2014, 21:38

Just in relation to the above posts on dilemmas of innocent vs guilty clients. I studied law at under graduate and post graduate level. The first thing you learn in criminal law is the accused person is innocent until proven guilty and the jury must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt of that guilt of a person. Which is you must be sure you belive the person is guilty before you convict. Whereas in a civil matter the level is balance of probabilities. This means on a jury you must think is a good possibility only. As you can see the criminal bar is higher. The idea is you would rather an guilty man go free than an innocent man go to jail. I don't practise criminal law so can't speak from experience but I thought people may have wanted to know how maybe a criminal lecture would deal with the idea of defending a guilty man.

The difference between a barrister and solicitor is litigation. If you to go to Court a Barrister would represent you and draft all the Court pleadings. A Solicitor generally deals with non litigation matters. So you get wills drafted by Solicitors, contracts, buying a house etc. I know in Ireland you could only hire a Barrister after going through a Solicitor but I think that has recently changed in the UK. Solicitors are very client based. Generally you would only meet your Barrister once or twice before going to Court as all your dealings would be with the Solicitor. So if you are a Barrister, you would be big on networking as you are generally self employed and depended on getting on well with Solicitors for a Solicitor to recommend you as a Barrister for their client.

Sorry for going off topic to all the moderators!


Last edited by ace on Thu May 08 2014, 21:48; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Mistake and added distinction of solicitor and barrister)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by theminis on Thu May 08 2014, 22:27

Good info Ace- thanks

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Nicky80 on Thu May 08 2014, 22:34

Yeah and is not off topic and belongs to her work  Very Happy  Now today it really became much clearer to me. Barrister a solicitor those two job titles are so confusing to see the difference.....

Now not to confuse anyone more. But what is lawyer than? Just a different word for solicitor? Or is there a difference too? (Sorry in case dump question  Embarassed )

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by Joanna on Thu May 08 2014, 22:44

"Dump question" Nicky  ? Funny girl....

(In US a dump is a crap/shite)

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by ace on Thu May 08 2014, 22:59

So in common law jurisdictions I.e. UK, Ireland, Australia and parts of Canada we make the distinction that working in court and working with clients take different skills sets. So after you do your law degree you decide what you want to be. You have different training for each. And you cannot be a solicitor and a barrister at the same time. Mostly solicitors would "step down" for the Law Society as a solictor and train as a barrister. Then get "called to the bar". I never heard a barrister become a solicitor but have known solicitors become barristers. Generally speaking most judges tend to be barristers than a solicitor.

But in the US they don't think there is a different skill set involved so everyone does their bar exams and become a lawyer. But in practice from US lawyers I know, they either practise litigation and go to court a lot or don't.


Barristers and solicitors are regulated by two different bodies. Whereas all lawyers in US are regulated by their one body.

Human rights is a tricky matter. After all if I was a barrister in UK and wanted to practise in the USA I would need to do the bar exams to be recongised as a lawyer. To represent people at ICC level like Amal, she would need to have been approved by the ICC. The criteria is languages, competence, experience and a high standard in your profession. Obviously have no complaints made against you. Then you would state your preference of defending or prosecuting. Or at least that's my understanding of the ICC. I never did human rights as a subject but.my best friend did her masters in it. That's what I was told when I asked how a barrister would work at ICC. I thought maybe people may want to know how Amal got where she was.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

Post by party animal - not! on Thu May 08 2014, 23:15


With a lot of very hard work and effort, by the sound of it! And Amal has qualified in both the UK and USA

And then after many years of that, you then have to work and prove yourself in order to get a pupillage at a top Chambers like Doughty Street.

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Re: Amal Alamuddin and her work

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