Log in

I forgot my password

Latest topics
Our latest tweets
Free Webmaster ToolsSubmit Express

George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Page 2 of 15 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8 ... 15  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Katiedot on Sun Apr 01 2012, 21:28

Because the relatives of the people who owned the art have been asking for it back, but because all the ownership paperwork has been destroyed (thanks to a war and genocide) they can't prove it was theirs.

I haven't read the book that this particular story was based on (perhaps someone who has can step in here) but it's well documented. The Germans went into private homes and galleries and took what they wanted and had it sent to Berlin.

What do you think is hiding behind this?

Katiedot
Admin

Posts : 12369
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by LornaDoone on Sun Apr 01 2012, 21:42

The book does sound interesting but right now I'm reading The Hunter Games and have the other two books to go, just picked up the newest James Patterson book, "Guilty Wives" and am reading a business related book. So the artsy fartsy book will just have to wait! HA!

But reading this thread has been interesting and I do look forward to the movie.

LornaDoone
Moderator

Posts : 6692
Join date : 2011-01-06

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sirius12 on Sun Apr 01 2012, 22:06

Because the relatives of the people who owned the art have been asking for it back, but because all the ownership paperwork has been destroyed (thanks to a war and genocide) they can't prove it was theirs.

I haven't read the book that this particular story was based on (perhaps someone who has can step in here) but it's well documented. The Germans went into private homes and galleries and took what they wanted and had it sent to Berlin.

What do you think is hiding behind this?
Not discounting what is written here, but consider this: what happened during Versailles? The Germans were not stolen from, any history text states they were.

Then one must go all the way back, way beyond the tragedy of this war to sort things out. Everyone knows that Hitler was created at Versailles. Is that cause & effect, or a misunderstanding?

Begin digging at an archeological site. My family once visited Rome, they were digging in, as I recall, it was already already 12 levels down with more levels to go.

Now what if they had stopped at the first few levels and blurted out, "We're tired, we've seen enough?" Well who in hell said some things are inconvenient truths, not to say he had it.

You have to dig in to find the facts, to correctly put everything into context.

Consider just your own life, words, deeds and actions; if someone questions those, well, what is your reply?

Is it a simple answer or is there more to it? Okay, state it's no one's business, fine, but still people look in & go, "What's with this person?" People judge all of the time, right?

Everyone already knows about what you wrote here, but has anyone dug deeper? That is the question.

I learned this by reading about the behavior of the "Indian" tribes. Quotes of " " are used because they aren't from India, did the "Indian" instructor admit it was Asia? But in one text book the "Indians", after having been removed from the land acted a certain way; they were called "marauders". Were they or were they not? Everyone has a perspective but is it based on what is happening to those people?

Of course, if Jewish people bought that art, it is "theirs", no disrepect is intended. But then what happened during Versailles, even before that. That's the question, is it worth looking into? If not, forget the conversation because let's stay in the Dark Ages of not really understanding cause & effect to anything.

Sirius12
Clooney virgin

Posts : 14
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Sirius Star

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Maggy on Sun Apr 01 2012, 22:28

Sirius12, your are an interesting person.

This movie 'Monuments Men' is going be a winner. I like everything I'm reading about it.

Maggy
Totally loving George Clooney

Posts : 3821
Join date : 2012-01-02

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Atalante on Sun Apr 01 2012, 22:45

I don't expect Clooney to dig that deep, he's from Kentuuuuuuuuuucky, ellow ! super cool lol!

Atalante
Clooney-love. And they said it wouldn't last

Posts : 1987
Join date : 2010-12-31
Location : Little Old Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by it's me on Sun Apr 01 2012, 23:08

lelacorb wrote:I hope that he recognizes that the more the country was deprived of his works of art that is all 'Italy!

RIGHT!

it's me
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 16915
Join date : 2011-01-03

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sirius12 on Sun Apr 01 2012, 23:49

Atalante wrote:I don't expect Clooney to dig that deep, he's from Kentuuuuuuuuuucky, ellow ! super cool lol!
I find the Southern people very hospitable. Kentucky is a Southern state; it is included as one of 4 U.S. states combined as a Commonwealth, which also includes Virginia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. Originally Kentucky was a part of Virginia.

Sirius12
Clooney virgin

Posts : 14
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Sirius Star

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sirius12 on Sun Apr 01 2012, 23:53

Maggy wrote:Sirius12, your are an interesting person.

This movie 'Monuments Men' is going be a winner. I like everything I'm reading about it.
Thankyou, hope it goes with some real depth & dimension.

Sirius12
Clooney virgin

Posts : 14
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Sirius Star

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by adgran on Mon Apr 02 2012, 00:16

Am in the middle of the book right now. It's a great read, especially cause it's based on letters and diaries of the people involved. It does have that "this would be a great movie" feel. Have to keep reminding myself that it's all based in reality - from the Allies POV.

In the same way, I loved In the Garden of Good and Evil about the American ambassador to Germany when Hitler came to power. Another book based on letters, diplomatic documents, diaries - it actually sickened me in some parts - cause the Nazis were viewed as harmless by the ambassador for a long time. When he did wake up and realize that what the Jews had been saying all along was true, it was too late. He was desperate to get his family out of Germany and almost couldn't.

All that to say that I thought that book would also make a great movie.


Last edited by adgran on Mon Apr 02 2012, 00:17; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to add the last sentence)

adgran
Clooneyfan

Posts : 106
Join date : 2011-06-24

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sirius12 on Mon Apr 02 2012, 00:32

Everything that happened in Germany must be measured by the Versailles Treaty, it was collective punishment upon the German nation.

Collective punishment began at Versailles. Everyone knows this, but little is this aspect ever mentioned.

Sirius12
Clooney virgin

Posts : 14
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Sirius Star

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by zizi on Mon Apr 02 2012, 00:39

[quote="Sirius12"]
Because the relatives of the people who owned the art have been asking for it back, but because all the ownership paperwork has been destroyed (thanks to a war and genocide) they can't prove it was theirs.
What paper work would one keep to proof the contents of a modern house where valuable items may be present? A credit card receipts? Who keeps those for decades. So to proof the ownership would be ridiculous undertaking. But there are records in Berlin where it was meticulously recorded from where these precious pieces were brought. It happened many years ago. Any relatives that survived are old. Who is to know that the original owners wanted for these so called relatives to have these assets. There are no wills like there is no paperwork of ownership. Maybe the original owners wanted the society at large, people they lived with, to enjoy the art after they were gone. At most the art should be returned to the place where the art was taken from.
Sirius12 wrote:Not discounting what is written here, but consider this: what happened during Versailles? The Germans were not stolen from, any history text states they were.”
Wars are bad enough to consider evil, the effects on all folks on all sides after the war are just as bad. There is the “ spoils to the victor ?” concept. So during the war the Nazis were victorious and did whatever they pleased. But they lost in the end, so why would they, now Germany, keep the stuff removed from the conquered regions during the conflict.
Bottom line is, this art does not belong in Berlin nor does it belong to some distant relative living in USA. It belongs to the surviving generation of all nationalities to be enjoyed. Its only a question of compromise as to where it should be displayed.
Sirius12 wrote:Then one must go all the way back, way beyond the tragedy of this war to sort things out. Everyone knows that Hitler was created at Versailles. Is that cause & effect, or a misunderstanding?
There are other “creation” similar to above like Stalin and the consequences that followed, what about Mao Tse Tung. Even now “creations” are happening, Middle East, Far East. What are your comments on that. History is written and published by those that have assets now and is badly skewed. Films are likewise. Readers and viewers are influenced by what they see in the book or film. Lets continue digging.

zizi
More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney

Posts : 1028
Join date : 2011-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sirius12 on Mon Apr 02 2012, 00:47

But reality is what happened at Versailles has never been dealt with; Stalin took half of Europe to communize it at Yalta; he had threatened to communize Europe, his early speeches admit to it. He was given it, freely, by the supposed "free world". Orwell lives.

Sirius12
Clooney virgin

Posts : 14
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Sirius Star

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by bamboochacha on Mon Apr 02 2012, 02:07

Rose Valland, Temporary Custodian of the Jeu de Paume

I bet she did it. All temps work for the good of only themselves!!!!! flower

bamboochacha
Clooney maximus fantasticus

Posts : 1512
Join date : 2011-06-30
Location : White Rock, B.C Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by davidarochelle on Mon Apr 02 2012, 05:07

Sirius 12,
It has been argued that after losing World War I, Germany was penalized at the Treaty of Versailles. The economic losses some believe is what allowed Hitler to come to power, to restore German Pride. Fears that Nazi officials would raid museums for their private collections, and that their residences would be bombed and the art destroyed, were valid. It has always been a question of where valuable pieces should be displayed. Some pieces are rotated between different museums and individual owners, for maximum enjoyment.

davidarochelle
Super clooney-astic fantastic

Posts : 1403
Join date : 2011-09-20

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 10:24

I have read the book. It's a bit of a whitewash of what happened to the art that the Nazis looted from private , mostly Jewish, collectors. From 1933 to 1945, the Nazis stole one fifth of the world's art. Very little of it was ever returned to its rightful owners, most of whom died in concentration camps. Few were alive after the war to claim restitution. Their surviving relatives, for the most part, had no written proof of the thefts to take to court.

The Monument Men recovered only a tiny percentage of the looted art. Even where the name of the original owner was recorded, it often took decades for their families to recover their property. Many still have not and their paintings are on display today in the galleries of Germany and Austria where the Nazis put them. Many more hang in prominent art galleries around the world, including the US and Britain, These institutions picked up vast quantities of stolen art for a pittance during the war years and didn't ask any questions about where it came from. The galleries fight tooth and nail in the courts today keep 'their' collections. The culpability of Western governments and cultural institutions in this immense crime is not dwelled upon in the Monument Men story.

Much of the written record, to the extent there was one, of the looting, was destroyed, leaving victims and their descendants without proof. Interestingly, the number of legal claims is growing today, 70-80 years after the original thefts, as records (government records, museum archives etc) go online and families can finally find the proof they need.

The Monument Men book is a memoir of the successes of a collection of art experts, gathered together to find the stolen loot. It doesn't dwell on the fact that they recovered only a tiny part of it and that their governments held on to a lot of that. It took the Rothschild family 70 years to recover 250 of the 5,000 works of art that were stolen from them, and they had all the money in the world to throw at the battle. The families of ordinary victims are still waiting for justice.

The book also only covers the Nazi looting. The Russian army re-looted much of what the Nazis had originally stolen and shipped it off to galleries behind the Iron Curtain. The Monument Men didn't touch the Russian loot and almost none of it has been returned. The Monument Men were an oddball collection of art experts and intellectuals gathered from the museums and universities of the allied countries. Many had communist sympathies, though I doubt the film will dwell on this point.

The catastrophe that the Nazi and Soviet armies visited on the global art market is a much more complicated story than the heroic adventure portrayed in the Monument Men book. It is not nearly as easy as the book suggests to tell the good guys from the bad. They were an eccentric bunch, however, and decidedly unmilitary. They'll make an interesting, if not necessarily historically accurate, movie

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Katiedot on Mon Apr 02 2012, 10:59

Thanks so much for that explanation, Ello. Really interesting and helpful to have the background.

Katiedot
Admin

Posts : 12369
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 12:19

It's interesting how the Monument Men described their purpose in the book, which was to save cultural artifacts from destruction, not to recover stolen art to return to its owner. It was the kind of patrician view that today motivates the British Museum in their fight to keep the Elgin Marbles rather than return them to Greece. They are well cared for by responsible British academics and on display for the entire world to see, as they should be. Greece has a different view, I understand!

Many of the intellectuals who were roped in to the Monument Men operation didn't believe important art should be in private hands at all, it should be on display in public galleries for the benefit of all mankind. They were, therefore, not all that interested in the art getting back to its original owners. There is a good argument that the public should be able to see the Great Masters' works, but it doesn't stop the fact that an awful lot of the art in the world's most respected galleries today was stolen.

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 12:27

Re parts for women in this film, there is precisely one woman in the story, Rose Valland. This is another Clooney film by men about men. George may have already signed up Julia 'Token' Roberts. Hey she, can have a go at a French accent, she might get an Oscar!

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by it's me on Mon Apr 02 2012, 12:59

an awful lot of the art in the world's most respected galleries today was stolen

it is
somehow
shocking Shocked


Julia? do you think it would be her?

it's me
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 16915
Join date : 2011-01-03

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 14:11

Shocking, yes in deed. There is no registry of ownership for art, possession is at least nine tenths of the law. The descendants of the original owners have to prove their ancestor owned the painting and that it was then stolen, which many cannot, so the paintings stay where they are on the walls of the world's galleries.

I'm just kidding really about Julia, seeing as she's George's usual 'go to' for a token female part. Juliette Binoche is about the right age. Marion Cotillard has played middle aged so she could do it. I hope he picks a French actress at least.

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Lakin460 on Mon Apr 02 2012, 14:28

Katiedot wrote:Thanks so much for that explanation, Ello. Really interesting and helpful to have the background.

I agree! Thanks Ello for the backstory, putting it in such an articulate and easily digestable post.

Lakin460
Slow dancing with George Clooney

Posts : 6802
Join date : 2012-03-01
Location : Ohio, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Lighterside on Mon Apr 02 2012, 14:46

Oh ello thanks so much for that backstory on the thefts/restoration of at least some of the artwork....very interesting indeed! I remember you having quite an extensive knowledge of art come to think of it! Thumbs up!

I would assume that they would pick a French actress for the part also. And both Juliette Binoche and Marion Cotillard (love them both!)are wonderful actresses and I'm sure there are more than that to choose from, if necessary.

Lighterside
Super clooney-astic fantastic

Posts : 1497
Join date : 2010-12-06

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by davidarochelle on Mon Apr 02 2012, 15:23

Ello,
Thank you for your clarification. If G's movie adheres to the book, media controversy will follow. Maybe this is the ultimate goal; to debate where individually owned art should be displayed. Great works are often appropriated during war. I read an article in our Vegas paper that there are treasures from poorer Asian countries displayed in private homes in Taiwan. Once again G is shedding light on an international issue.

davidarochelle
Super clooney-astic fantastic

Posts : 1403
Join date : 2011-09-20

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 20:22

Yes, that's right, war does cause a 'redistribution' of art. Paintings being portable assets of great value, they are prime loot for any invading force. Velasquez, El Greco and Goya have the Spanish Civil War to thank for their pride of place in the major galleries of the world (or they would have, if they weren't long gone!) Looting is much more difficult nowadays with the collections of most Great Masters being widely published and catalogued (though you are right, asian art is still something of a closed book), but in the Second World War and prior conflicts, ordinary soldiers could 'stumble across' unknown works of art which are now priceless. Some of the Monument Men, for example, acquired very impressive art collections..

It will be very interesting to see the perspective that George takes with the film. To play it as a straight wartime adventure would be to miss a number of more interesting stories.

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 20:33

I'm not not suggesting that the Monument Men were looters themselves, by the way, just that they were experts travelling in a war-ravaged Europe where everything was up for sale. In the midst of that chaos, they had a good eye for a bargain.

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by bamboochacha on Mon Apr 02 2012, 21:10

Interesting. Perhaps they were all nazi affiliates collecting the stolen property posing as gov't appointed officials.

Wonder: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

flower

bamboochacha
Clooney maximus fantasticus

Posts : 1512
Join date : 2011-06-30
Location : White Rock, B.C Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 21:55

The movie publicity mentions espionage activities so I think they have the involvement of the Monument Men in intelligence work in their sights. They were prominent intellectuals and academics in the 1930s, when many were openly communist or, less often, fascist; the art world then was highly politically charged. It's an interesting question which government some of them were really working for. The Monument Men were brought together towards the end of the war so I doubt there were many Nazi sympathisers; their Soviet connections are I think the bigger question. Some of them were later ruined by McCarthy, which, as anyone who has seen Goodnight and Good Luck will know, proves nothing.

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by bamboochacha on Mon Apr 02 2012, 22:32

Movies always leave one with unanswered questions, or they just plant a seed of suspicion. Otherwise it would be a documentary - no? flower

bamboochacha
Clooney maximus fantasticus

Posts : 1512
Join date : 2011-06-30
Location : White Rock, B.C Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Mon Apr 02 2012, 22:41

Oh yes, I hope the movie asks lots of questions. It's a subject that has not been much examined before, which in itself is interesting given the vast amounts of money involved and the continued impact of the Nazi looting today.

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by bamboochacha on Mon Apr 02 2012, 22:57

Yeah - there's also the general public rumour of US gov't kkk members that were/still are in their kitchen checkered tablecloth hoods cohootin' with the nazi regime in ripping everybody off. Wow, this could be a saga. flower

bamboochacha
Clooney maximus fantasticus

Posts : 1512
Join date : 2011-06-30
Location : White Rock, B.C Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by melbert on Tue Apr 03 2012, 01:46

Thank you Ello! You're insight makes this more interesting to me now. I hope that George and Grant git'r'done!!!

melbert
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 19134
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : George's House

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by macs on Tue Apr 03 2012, 08:11

Ello wrote:
It will be very interesting to see the perspective that George takes with the film. To play it as a straight wartime adventure would be to miss a number of more interesting stories.

Agreed, that's what I'm curious to see what he's got in mind
I'm partially worried when he talks about going commercial though, I hope he just means it is the kind of production that needs money, because it can't simply be a war/buddy movie
Agree with you too about the role of the momuments men and the return of private collections, and this is why this story is so interesting : done well, finely shaded and subtle, clever, it just open an interesting debate, not quite closed right now. It's also somehow fascinating how few monuments men were, and how much art/artefacts there was...
note that the return of arts was also, like a lot of things right after the war (retributions, speedy trials), were done in total chaos. Plus some people were in denial of what really happened in Europe during that time.

macs
Shooting hoops with George Clooney

Posts : 309
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Tue Apr 03 2012, 09:07

Thanks Mel!

Macs, the prospect of a big budget movie fills me with foreboding too. The bigger the budget, the more pressure on Clooney to avoid controversy, particularly examination of the dubious motivations of the allied governments. The Hurt Locker demonstrated that a huge budget isn't necessary to make a top quality war movie, but then Saving Private Ryan is an example of vast amounts of cash used well. I can see the attraction of a big production to Clooney, considering the shoestring he usually has to work with.

It's amazing how well the post-war reconstruction and legal processes were implemented really, considering the total chaos in which they were conducted (ignoring the sizable flaw of giving Stalin half of Europe).

Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sirius12 on Tue Apr 03 2012, 20:07

Sirius 12,
It has been argued that after losing World War I, Germany was penalized at the Treaty of Versailles. The economic losses some believe is what allowed Hitler to come to power, to restore German Pride. Fears that Nazi officials would raid museums for their private collections, and that their residences would be bombed and the art destroyed, were valid. It has always been a question of where valuable pieces should be displayed. Some pieces are rotated between different museums and individual owners, for maximum enjoyment.
The Treaty of Versailles absolutely did punitive damage on Germany, has anyone heard the truth of the Lusitania loaded with war arnaments? A television documentary produced more than a decade ago stated that the Germans told the truth at Versailles, the documentary admitted that the war munitions inside that passenger ship is what caused it to sink. Divers doing research found the ship's hull full of war munitions.

Is anyone interested in doing a project on that aspect? A passenger ship full of war munitions meant to be used in war.

So, if one takes if from there...now as far as the art is concerned, one would really need to research how this art got into private hands, and the German viewpoint on why they seized this art, from not only the owners of this art, but those who seized it.

Since the Allies were on concerted bombing raids on Germany..these things always wind up with more questions than answers..the more one digs the more questions..just natural..


Sirius12
Clooney virgin

Posts : 14
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Sirius Star

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by melbert on Wed Apr 04 2012, 02:19

Ello wrote:Thanks Mel!
Macs, the prospect of a big budget movie fills me with foreboding too. The bigger the budget, the more pressure on Clooney to avoid controversy, particularly examination of the dubious motivations of the allied governments. The Hurt Locker demonstrated that a huge budget isn't necessary to make a top quality war movie, but then Saving Private Ryan is an example of vast amounts of cash used well. I can see the attraction of a big production to Clooney, considering the shoestring he usually has to work with.
You know, I have a feeling that George will NOT be worried about controversy. He will do what he wants to do to get the story done. JMHAO

melbert
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 19134
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : George's House

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Ello on Wed Apr 04 2012, 12:03

Mel, I hope you are right, the moneymen can be pretty ferocious, but George knows up from down, I'm sure he'll make the film he wants to make.


Ello
Clooneyfan

Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Katiedot on Thu Jul 19 2012, 11:55

Haven't heard much about this one recently. Anyone interested in the history and based in New Orleans, here's your chance to learn more:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Seventy years ago, a group of men more suited to working in museums than fox holes thumbed their way along war’s front lines to rescue da Vinci’s “Lady with an Ermine,” Vermeer’s “The Astronomer,” Michelangelo’s “Bruges Madonna” and other great art treasures of the western world – spoils earmarked for Adolph Hitler’s Third Reich and his Fuhrermuseum as he systematically emptied Europe’s museums and the collections of private citizens.

Working in an office virtually unknown outside a handful of people, their department severely underfunded and their objective facing nearly insurmountable odds, these men turned out to be exactly suited to the task at hand – and ultimately successful in their mission.

This fall, the National World War II Museum in New Orleans is presenting “In the Footsteps of the Monuments Men,” a bucket list adventure that will trace the path of these largely unsung heroes, the scholar/soldiers who raced across conquered Europe to save millions of art treasures – paintings, sculptures, drawings, church bells, sacred scrolls – from obliteration in the chaotic final days of the war.

The tour program, scheduled for September 14 to 23, 2012, is based on Robert Edsel’s The Monuments Men: Allied Heroes, Nazi Thieves and the Greatest Treasure Hunt in History. The 2010 nonfiction book tells the story of that special force of American and British museum directors, curators and art historians – the Monuments Men – who sleuthed through war-torn and occupied towns to rescue and return the more than 5 million art objects stolen by the Nazis, stashed in caves, castles and salt mines – and rigged for explosion when Hitler realized he had lost the war.

“The Monuments officers’ original assignment was to protect monuments, churches and buildings, but no one took into account what happened – cultural theft on a scale Napoleon could have only dreamed of,” said Edsel. The Texas author also wrote Rescuing da Vinci, a story on the same topic published in 2006; co-produced the 2006 Emmy-nominated documentary film, “The Rape of Europa”; and is the founder and president of the Monuments Men Foundation for the Preservation of Art, a recipient of the National Humanities Medal.

“These men were put into the role of cultural detectives. Most of the officers spoke a second language, many of them three or four. Many had been schooled in Europe and had as part of their curriculum vitae positions as museum directors or art historians.”

According to Edsel, the major challenge for the Monuments Men was the lack of resources provided by the army.

“These were middle-aged guys who’d held positions of authority,” he said. “They were used to having no resources and having a big job. The army didn’t give them resources – but it also stayed out of their way.

“The Monuments Men took it upon themselves to get from place to place. They knew where the works of art should be, knew the collections of importance, and began tracking down clues. They’d find the museum curator, the bishop of the church or the vicar and ask questions. In some cases, the army would trip over these things; they’d go into a salt mine and find the art and call the Monuments Men. There was nothing glamorous about it.”

Early in his quest to learn more about the looting of Europe’s great art treasures during World War II, Edsel met Harry Ettlinger, a German Jew whose family had fled Nazi persecution in 1938 and wound up a soldier in the U.S. Seventh Army as an 18-year-old – and one of eight surviving Monuments Men.

In May of 1945, Ettlinger was tasked with traveling to the Castle of Neuschwanstein in southwest Bavaria, Germany, to inspect thousands of priceless treasures that had been looted by the Nazis. In September, he will return to the scene of the (Nazis’) crime, leading the “In the Footsteps of the Monuments Men” adventure with Edsel as the group embarks on a modern-day treasure hunt from Paris and the Louvre to the salt mines of Altaussee, Austria.

“It’s an amazing Indiana Jones type story, except it’s true,” said Gordon “Nick” Mueller, president and CEO of the National WWII Museum. “The most surprising thing participants will discover on this tour is how famous these works of art are. Who would have thought the ‘Mona Lisa’ was crated up and sitting in a salt mine or a castle in Germany? Everyone takes it for granted these works were always where they are in a museum, but they were in danger of being destroyed forever.

“The hiding places themselves will surprise,” he added. “The tour will go into these places and you’ll see the photographs at the moment of discovery.”

Tracking the clues the Monuments Men themselves followed 70 years ago, the tour will retrace their route to visit some of the artistic treasures saved from destruction. Stops will be made at the Louvre, Germany’s Residenz Palace in Wurzburg and the Church of Notre Dame in La Gleize, Belgium. Visits will also be made to sites where the Nazis had hidden their plunder, including Hitler’s Eagles Nest retreat at Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps and the salt mines of Altaussee – where the Monuments Men uncovered the greatest trove of stolen works, all destined for Hitler’s Fuhrermuseum.

“This was the mother lode,” said Mueller. “The Monuments Men were on a race against time to save the art, but Hitler had ordered the mine rigged for demolition: If he lost the war it was to be blown up. The troops got there just in time to save these works of art and return them to their museums and private owners.”

Edsel and Mueller call the story of the Monuments Men one of the most fascinating chapters in the history of World War II. In fact, actor/director George Clooney is currently making a big-budget movie based on Edsel’s book. Called “The Monuments Men,” it will tell the story of a hand-picked group of art experts chosen by the U.S. government to retrieve artwork stolen by the Nazis, according to TheWrap. Clooney is co-writing, directing and starring in the movie.

Said Edsel: “Those taking this tour are going to have a chance to see World War II through a lens no one has seen before – to see the great art treasures of Western civilization in the company of a hero [Ettlinger] who has gone through these places.

“From a cool factor, how neat would it be to walk in these steps knowing in a couple of years’ time or less there’ll be a feature film telling the story you’ve already told your friends?”

INFORMATION

Officially called the Monuments, Fine Arts and Archives section under the auspices of the Civil Affairs and Military Government Sections of the Allied Armies, the Monuments Men included approximately 345 men and women from 13 nations. Many were museum directors, curators, art historians, artists, architects and educators. Most were volunteers. In the closing months of the war, they tracked down artworks hidden in more than 1,000 locations. They remained in Europe until 1951 to oversee the return of more than 5 million artistic and cultural items.

According to Robert Edsel, author of The Monuments Men: Allied Heroes, Nazi Thieves and the Greatest Treasure Hunt in History, hundreds of thousands of works of art remain missing. In Poland alone, there are still 70,000 works listed in their missing database.

“Many of the things stolen, the gold coins, for instance, were melted down,” said Edsel, whose next book, Saving Italy, due in 2013, will narrate the story of two Monuments Men and their struggle to protect and save Italy’s greatest art treasures during World War II. “Glass objects were broken. Small paintings or canvases that could be taken, a tapestries – if they were portable – these types of things are probably still out there.”

The “In the Footsteps of the Monuments Men” journey, September 14-23, 2012, is a once-in-a-lifetime experience that will led by Edsel and Monuments Man Harry Ettlinger in advance of the George Clooney film currently in production. The tour, presented by the National
WWII Museum in New Orleans, La., will be limited to 25 travelers.


Katiedot
Admin

Posts : 12369
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by party animal - not! on Thu Jul 19 2012, 13:17

Fascinating stuff, isn't it? And I can't believe that GTC would give the exhibition a miss, except of course he's already had a number of meetings with the author and researchers.

I feel sure that he will give the subject the respect it deserves (with possibly a voice-over outlining the bigger picture - just as many of Ello's posts have indicated) while making it an adventure story to bring it to a wider audience and a bigger debate on a relatively little-known topic

party animal - not!
Zip a dee Clooney!

Posts : 7776
Join date : 2012-02-16

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by it's me on Sat Jul 21 2012, 14:46

so?
when would this one start?

it's me
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 16915
Join date : 2011-01-03

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by party animal - not! on Sat Jul 21 2012, 14:54

They've already started on the script (GTC and Heslov) and are in Europe most of the summer looking at locations i e Nprthern France, Germany, Southern Italy. Exciting!

party animal - not!
Zip a dee Clooney!

Posts : 7776
Join date : 2012-02-16

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by it's me on Sat Jul 21 2012, 15:00

are u sure?

it's me
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 16915
Join date : 2011-01-03

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by party animal - not! on Sat Jul 21 2012, 15:26

Only going on what GTC said on very many red carpets, starting with the words 'I'm back working already'.........or words to that effect. Juggling a million other producer jobs, Sudan, Obamafest etc at the same time of course!

party animal - not!
Zip a dee Clooney!

Posts : 7776
Join date : 2012-02-16

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Way2Old4Dis on Sun Jul 22 2012, 01:54

As writers, GC and Heslov are very good at finding the core conflict in a story and paying it off intelligently. That's what I loved about Good Night, and Good Luck. Anybody else would have fictionalized some lame-ass confrontation between Murrow and McCarthy. Clooney and Heslov let the inherent tension stand on its own.

All that to say, I'm not expecting a blockbuster, but it will be a well-told story. That's pretty much tops in my book.

Way2Old4Dis
Practically on first name terms with Mr Clooney

Posts : 2096
Join date : 2012-06-25

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Katiedot on Sun Jul 22 2012, 06:06

Me too, me too. As long as it's a great film, then I don't really care if it isn't seen by millions and millions.

Katiedot
Admin

Posts : 12369
Join date : 2010-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by cindigirl on Sat Sep 15 2012, 20:14

Here's an article regarding Mouments Men. It sounds interesting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

cindigirl
Happy Clooney-looney!

Posts : 5313
Join date : 2010-12-06
Location : NJ, USA

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Vi on Sat Sep 15 2012, 20:47

"Stern-Mag" had a little note too this week

Vi
Clooney-phile

Posts : 671
Join date : 2011-01-01

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by it's me on Sat Sep 15 2012, 23:49

...Speaking at Palm Springs Film Festival on Saturday, Clooney said...

scratch

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

btw the article was written at January 9, 2012




it's me
George Clooney fan forever!

Posts : 16915
Join date : 2011-01-03

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by LornaDoone on Sun Sep 16 2012, 04:17

Interesting info thanks to all who contributed. That being said, what time frame should we expect for this film to be released? December 2013?


Last edited by LornaDoone on Sun Sep 16 2012, 04:20; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fix the date cause we'll all be long gone before 2103!)

LornaDoone
Moderator

Posts : 6692
Join date : 2011-01-06

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Best in Category on Sun Sep 16 2012, 10:23

Poland? Some locations there, no?

Best in Category
More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney

Posts : 1080
Join date : 2012-07-07

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by silly girl on Tue Oct 02 2012, 21:36

And in other news Wink

This sounds promising:

George Clooney's 'The Monuments Men' Eyeing Jean Dujardin (Exclusive)

The Artist” star Jean Dujardin is being eyed for a role in George Clooney’s film “The Monument’s Men,” a person with knowledge of the project told TheWrap.


Getty Images
Dujardin, who became the first French actor to win an Oscar for Best Actor earlier this year (for “The Artist”) would be cast in a supporting role in this story about a group of men and women who chased down the stolen art of Europe during World War II.

Dujardin also has a role in Martin Scorsese’s upcoming film, “The Wolf of Wall Street.”

“The Monument’s Men” is based on the book “The Monuments Men: Allied Heroes, Nazi Thieves and the Greatest Treasure Hunt in History,” by Robert M Edsel.

Clooney will star in the film and also direct. He is also producing and writing the screenplay with Grant Heslov. Clooney plays George Stout, a U.S. Army officer and leading art conservationist, who repatriated tens of thousands of pieces of art from the Nazis.

The filmmakers are also understood to be interested in Cate Blanchett for the role of Rose Valland, an art historian and member of the French resistance, and in Paul Giamatti for the role of Lincoln Kirstein, who co-founded the New York City ballet with George Balanchine.

Representatives for the actors would only say that the casting process was in the very early stages.

The film is understood to be shooting in Germany, Austria, Paris and England next spring.

The book, which focuses on the 11-month period between D-Day and V-E Day, tells the tale of a special force of American and British museum directors, curators, art historians who risked their lives scouring Europe to prevent the destruction of the art.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

silly girl
Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to Clooney I go!

Posts : 3299
Join date : 2011-02-28

Back to top Go down

Re: George Clooney to Direct, Star In 'Monuments Men' About Stolen Nazi Art (Exclusive)

Post by Sponsored content Today at 20:23


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 15 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8 ... 15  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum